Applegeek Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 OK, somebody talk some sense into me here... My daughter's '93 Legacy 2.2L, FWD, 149k miles auto tranny has died, or possibly the TC. The tranny shifts, and I can feel it go into gear, but the engine is reving at about 3,0000 rpm before it gets any forward motion to the front wheels. Same for reverse and all gears. It's been getting progressively worse over aboit 5 days - at this point it isn't leaving our driveway. Its not fluid levels, and I checked the oil and filter screen and there is definitely debris in the oil. This car was purchased used last June and it has been kind of OK, but as we're finiding out probably not the best maintained car in the world. It was cheap, though, and we got what we paid for. The motor runs great and I installed a new timing belt / pulleys / water and oil pump and the motor is fine. SO: I don't want to put a lot of money into this car. Its just an OK car and if it can be fixed with a junkyard tranny to make it last until spring, that's all I need to do. Otherwise I'm driving it off the nearest cliff. I have a replacement tranny with 125,000k miles that tested great at the junkyard before it was pulled (rear-end collision car ), I grabbed it for $175. Here's the question: I have a 2 ton engine hoist, but no tranny jack. The R-12 has leaked out long ago, so it would be easy to remove the radiator and AC condenser if required to make room. Question: Would it be easier to remove the tranny and engine as a set?? Looking at this, I'm 100% by myself, and it looks almost just as easy to pull the engine and tranny together...The plan was to hang the engine on the hoist, remove the engine and trabby crossbars, angle the tranny end down, then slide the whole shebang out the engine bay. That way the new tranny can get attached to the engine while its out in the open where I can get to it. I've done engine / tranny swaps before, and I know enough to know I don't want to be stuck under the car trying to get the tranny mated up to the engine by myself. Pulling it is no huge problem, its the getting back together. Would pulling the motor + tranny work? It doesn't look like that big a deal to pull the motor with it. Or is it really better to leave the motor in... I was trying to figure out how these are assembled at the factory and I would guess the engine and tranny are slid in as a set, just a guess... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Automatics won't come out connected to the engine in a Legacy. Not without lowering the whole front crossmember. It won't clear. Best bet honestly is to drop the trans out the bottom. Get some very tall jackstands, and a transmission craddle for your floorkack. Hardest part is unbolting the Torque converter through the access hole in the rear of the engine. Put's you on the ground, but involves the least amount of work for dissassembly. Alternately, you could pull the engine first, then the trans. Or, If you really want them to come out toghether with a hoist(which does make mating the new one to the engine WAY easier) You will have to lower the engine crossmember by removing the four bolts that hold it to the body. It still will requre a ton of tilt(drain trans first) and is a tight fit. Whatever you do, make sure you get a good grasp on seating the Torque converter into the transpump. Do some searches, it's very important and easy to goof up if you don't pay careful attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 the 4EAT transmissions are quite reliable. with proper fluid changes and no overheating that used transmission should easily last you a few years. Automatics won't come out connected to the engine in a Legacy. Not without lowering the whole front crossmember. It won't clear. i've pulled 2nd gen (95/96) AWD automatics with the engine/trans connected and didn't have to unbolt anything to make it happen. it's a tight squeeze but it comes out. i've never done 1st gen legacy's but i would guess they would come out too? now, the engine/trans combo was SERIOUSLY angled hard core to come out, but it did! that being said, pulling the trans is the fastest way to do this job...but only if it goes well! it can also be longer and a total PITA. working from the under the car is a bear. hocrest said he uses his 2ton engine hoist and some chain to drop transmissions without puling the engine. weave some chain from the hoist through the engine bay into the trans. then use the hoist to aid in supporting, separating and installing the trans from under the car. he has more details somewhere i'm sure, but sounds like a good idea. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applegeek Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Thanks, guys! I saw the notes on seating the TC properly, I'll be extra careful on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I've pulled 1st gen motor/trans together using a crane and a load leverer to tilt the lump as it came out. I read somewhere that it shouldn't / cant be done with the new gen. but if Gary said he did I'd go with that. I'd definetly recommend you have the load leverer tool to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I've pulled 1st gen motor/trans together using a crane and a load levererthat makes sense. i've done EJ25's with auto AWD, so that's about the biggest combo too on a 2nd gen, so looks like they're all doable. the load leveler sounds great, it was annoying because i had to change the chains mid-pull to get the angle right. it was engine up, trans down to get it all out. drain that ATF and engine before doing it, or it's coming out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 there's also the lift the car up, drop the engine cross member, rack, wheels, struts?, with trans, down method. but i can't figure how to do it unless you have a ceiling lift / crane. a good size engine hoist will do the work, but the legs are always in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 1st gen with Manual the motor and trans will come out toghether. 2nd gen OUTBACKS with either trans can be pulled toghether (outback body is 1.25 inches further off crossmember. 1st gen w/4eat mated to it will NOT come out without lowering the crossmember. Prove me wrong, please (w/ photos, or it don't count) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Gloyale, I'm replacing the 4EAT on a '93 Legacy SS w/in the next couple of weeks. I'll try to get it out w/out dropping it, too....and take pics if I succeed. If I can't, do I just remove/loosen the 4 bolts or do the P/S lines and steering linkage need disconnected too? Which isn't a big deal, I guess. The engine is out of the car (in my '90 now ), and we replaced my '90's 4EAT last summer from underneath...w/2 helpers it wasn't too bad, but I'll be doing this one solo. Thanks, Td Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 in the 5 or so times i've pulled and intalled my 93 imp's 4eat over the last couple months, i did it through the bottom every time without thinking twice. i just disconnected everything, hooked the hoist with load leveler to the engine and unbolted the mounts (pulled the motor the first time but didn't bother after that, the load leveler makes all the difference when you go to slide the trans off the engine studs), then unbolted the trans & rear x-member and dropped it out on a 3-ton floor jack (for the bigger pad) with a 2x6 across the pan. i had one helper usually, pulled it once alone. i tried to put it in alone once but it almost slipped back off the jack into my chest as i tried to get the front to clear the engine x-member. those things are so heavy its just not safe doing it that way alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSW Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I know this is an older post but here is some information that can be used. I just removed the engine and automatic trans together in a 1993 Subaru Legacy. Also the crossmember was not removed. 2 ton hoist ok. This engine/trans removal was very easy to do. If you have any questions on how to do this email me. I also have pictures to show it can be done if you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) I would say the easiest approach is to pull the motor. from there you have plenty of room to work around the axles, and the crossmember. having the motor out already makes re-installation of the trans a pure preeze. you can take this time to do all the engine selas on the motor, just set it in a 5 gal bucket for a stand(you would have to do the oil pan and oil pump hanging from the crane this way) here are some videos relating to removing an at, and reinstallation of a manual trans(same procedure) These videos are about an EA82 engine, but the legacy will be the same as far as bellhousing and engine mounts. between ea82 and legacy you basically use the same procedures for this type of work (engine already out, removing AT) (installing the Manual, engine out of car) this one demonstrates using the crane to hold the car up high to get the jack under search youtube for "Art of Subaru Maintenance" #01 through #03 details removing the engine 5 through 10 details engine seals and timing belts 11-15 detils engine install and hookups 16- through 17 details the trans if you watch them all in a row it details removal of the motor, engine seals, removing an automatic, installing amanual, and reinstalling the engine for a at to 5spd swap the vids show about the ehgine crane, where to place your jack, bellhousing and motor mounts, universal procdure for ea82's in any form otherwise if you leave the motor in, you can use a tranny jack under the car, but yo will have to jack the car way up to get the trans and jack under there first. An automatic will mate together much easier than a manual since you dont have to worry bout clutch spline and pilot shaft alignment Edited January 16, 2010 by MilesFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 1st gen with Manual the motor and trans will come out toghether. 2nd gen OUTBACKS with either trans can be pulled toghether (outback body is 1.25 inches further off crossmember. 1st gen w/4eat mated to it will NOT come out without lowering the crossmember. Prove me wrong, please (w/ photos, or it don't count) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 nice trick with the yoke plugging the seal. A spray paint lid and a rubber glove works for that purpose, also I pulled a whole lum pn an 83 wagon, fwd 5spd, NEVER AGAIN! i see you removed the trans mount, that looks a lot easier. poersonally, though, dont the motor and trans separate is easier for me. I could consider pulling the 2 together on newer ones, but has anyone INSTALLED motor/trans together? btw use caution with cinder blocks, i have heard stories of them failing. you would be better off with wooden blocks or logs, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Yup I removed and installed the motor with no issues clearance wise at all. With a leveler just keep adjust as you raise and pull forward. I was worried about those cinderblocks exploding but I had a piece of wood between the car chassis and the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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