TeamCF Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This is news about trails. So I figured it be posted here. Was just on another board and was reminded of the fact. As of 2009. If a trail on Forest Service land is not marked "Open" Then it is closed. If it is unmarked, it is closed. (unless you checked in with the local FS office and found out otherwise that day) So this means for me, that everything up Lolo Pass. All around Goat Mt. and really everything except the TSF area. Is now closed to wheeling. Like I said it does not have to have a closed sign to be closed. This is sad. But even more sad would be to be like the guy that got a $5,000 fine and his rig taken away. Not just impounded, it's no longer his. For drivng down an unmarked trail. Not sure of other states. But that's how it is here in Oregon now. It is now our responsibility (always kinda was, but now it's ENFORCED) to know what is wheelable and what is not, with or without signs. Quote from another site from a guy who works with the Forest Service to get more trails opened: "Please be careful, On a "Criminal Trespassing" charge they can and sometimes will take your rig, fine you big time and throw you in the clink to think about it. Not to mention it looks really bad on those who try and keep areas open / get them open!" Guess my last trip up Goat. Was my LAST trip. Goat is a mix of BLM and FS land. So for us north Oregon wheelers TSF area is it for future wheeling. At least around here. Until the new Hood River trails are done. Legal areas can be found here. http://oohva.org/ (go to the bottom, links down there) A nice little site where you can select what class OHV you want to ride/drive And an area and it shows you whats what. http://atv.prd.state.or.us/places.php And here is a little info. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/recreation/ohv/index.shtml#regs (La Dee Flat is the area behind the RV park past Estacada for those who know it. Closed now, I had read there are supposed to be new class 2 trails being built there soon. ) Sucks to be a buzzkill. I wonder now if I'll ever get that trim piece back that I tore off up on Goat now (I know where I did it but didn't realize it came off til I was home).... Midnight recon run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Wow, that sucks big time. I hope it doesnt get that way up here, I havent even gotten to do any mountain wheelin yet, just screwed around in the hills around here myself. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 I thought it was a federal thing. But it may just be a OR thing. I'd have to look back into it. All I know is yeah it's a big bummer. If it's not MARKED open, then it is to be considered closed. Thing is. There are proly plenty of places around here that they don't care if you wheel it. But if it is not a marked trail you have to stay off. And we would get more marked ones, but the FS is streched too thin as it is, I doubt they will spend the cash and time to go and mark trails for us. It's alot cheaper and easier to just say say "live with what you got, stay the heck out of everywhere else." It really comes down to if you want to wheel, become involved in the system to keep your trails open. Plenty of info and such can be had by your local Forest Service office. And they can get you in touch with the people that can give permissions to open a new "official" trail once you have your plan approved. It really is "If you want to wheel, you have to be willing to put the time, and money into planning, building, and maintaining the trails." (unless of course the area you want to wheel already has a group taking care of it, then just respect thier hard work.) I'm getting involved with a 4x4 club soon that is adopting some trails out at TSF. It'll be our responsibilty to take care of the trails and make sure they are in good shape each year to get the approval to stay open. Canopener is our first trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael appel Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Totally not true Im not fighting the the fact that your friend did get a fine butt he must have did something really bad in order to piss someone off or went past a gate or something because we pay for the federal land and the trails to be there that is why some are not cleaned or used but as far as I can tell you is that federal land can be driven on most blm is gateed because it is owned by blm if you go around a gate or drive and mak trails on the land not a trail you get in trouble so dont freak out and talk to a ranger yourself some time they dont just throw fines at people for the hell of it I have been in estacada for 5 years wheeling and have talked to rangers all the time and they have no problems with people wheeling They most likely found alchol and mischief to go into fining someone and taking there truck so relax and find out the truth before going crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) This is a new 2009 law. The info came from a FS rep. The guy who got the fine I do not know. And I guess it happened a few years ago. It was used as an example that happened of what they can do to you. (he proly did get caught on the wrong side of a gate or on a trail known to be closed) I do know of a guy that got arrested in the La Dee Flat area behind the RV park though, he was wheeling in the mud pits along the road. That was the last time I was out that way. And that area IS listed as off limits to wheelers, has been for a few years on the Forest Service website. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/recreation/ohv/index.shtml#regs But people still wheel the piss out of that area. (I have been back there a few times myself, I admit) And that is why this new law went into effect. They say nothing about the Goat area though. But they also say: "If it's not MARKED open, then it is to be considered closed. No sign is the same as a closed sign." Meaning if a trail does not have a sign like the ones out at TSF, then it's closed. I'm just passing it along. Alot of areas in Oregon are getting "Wilderness Area" designation here soon as well. That makes them an environmentally protected area and no motorized vehicles are allowed travel on. There's like 30,000 or so acres in the Mt. Hood forest that is getting it this year alone. And just because it's Federal land does not mean we automatically have the right to wheel it. (The Goat area is state and BLM) The white house lawn is federal land. We can't make trails there. (extreme example, but makes the point) And public land does not mean we are allowed to wheel it either. I talked to a guy that wheels and keeps up on the tree huggers for the sake of fighting them to keep trails open. He was saying that the average Environmentalist puts in more time and research to getting places closed and stopping us from wheeling than the average one of us puts into working on our rigs to go wheeling. All that means is we gotta get orginized and fight for our trails, or we will be stuck in the few ORV parks around. The good thing is that there are several projects going on right now to open legal trails in the estacada area. Like I said in another post. The La Dee Flats area is going to have class 2 (thats us) trails built there. But until they give the OK and print out the maps. it's a no no. And they may just chase ya out. They may just give you a talking to and a warning. Or it may be the max punishment. Depends on the ranger. And really how often do you see them up there anyway? Not much. Though I have seen the Forest Law Enforcment running around a few times I was out that way. And they did slow down and stare me down hard. Good thing I was just on a road. I. Don't think I'm gonna take the chance anymore. For all we know the new law will be an excuse for more patrols and quick cash. And you know me. I'll still be up there.(Goat) But 90% of the time I don't wheel out that way until late on weeknights. Long after all the rangers have went to bed. I've been up there in the daytime so few times.... It's amazing we run into each other up there so often. Anyhoo. When all this thaws out we gotta PLAN a wheeling trip. Get Greg and Chaz out too. As I think we've yet to get the whole group out at the same time. From a club site, this can point ya in the right direction and know what to ask about: "The forest sevice is in the process of their travel managment plan. I would highly suggest someone from your club contact them about the trails in your area. As we were told, if they're not on their maps, and listed as open (after the planning / discussion time) then they are either gone (legally) or closed. BUT! They plan on re-evaluating their plan yearly, so trails can get added or removed every year for numerous reasons." The "travel managment plan" I need to hit up an office for all the info and maps I can get regarding it. Edited January 4, 2009 by TeamCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) A good site. http://www.oregonrecreationcoalition.com/ You know. I've been told of the new law. I remember seeing things about it months ago and was worried then. But I'm searching and can't find it now. Proly buried in some forest service website and hard to get to. Best bet though would be to hit up the Estacada Ranger station and ask. And it was not 30,000 some odd acres around Mt. Hood. It was 128,400 acres of wilderness area added. Meaning that many taken away from possible wheeling areas. Edited January 4, 2009 by TeamCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazmataz Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 this BS really sucks! but then i've heard that all these places have been closed for sometime just not inforced i guess. a few years ago i heard that Wildcat was closed and that they we're inforcing it so i stopped going, then i started going up Goat didn't hear anything about there but i do know they closed off some good trails about 3 or 4 years ago. i heard La Dee Flats was closed off a couple of years ago besides some of the old mud pits that have been closed some years ago about 2 years back i think the logging company that was working up when they got done went through and closed off everything but the main road going in there. haven't been out in awhile i think spring was the last time on Goat. might need to go and check things out, curious about Squaw too. but won't get far right now i know it will be snowed in. sounds good Jason, we all need to get together and go up somewhere. i doubt they will be doing much up in those places as far as inforcing anything until the snow starts melting off. don't really need trails right now, the road will be hard enough as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Yeah La Dee has been closed for awhile mainly due to erosion. But like I said there is a plan to cunstruct new trails systems in several areas around here. I'll have to find it on the FS website but two of the areas had class two trails planned. (the trails are already layed out on planning maps which I have, just not cut in or legal yet) And La Dee is one of the areas. Squaw, I believe, is past the La Dee area and still open. I've been up it once. That was a fun trail, get's kinda offcamber, deep, and slick at the top. Goat had various trails closed off by the logging. Last time I went up all the gates were reopened and a few trails you could not get to for the past year or so are still there back in the west side up tight to the mountain. I would like to hit then up in the spring if it's ok to do so. I think the biggest thing is we are going to just check. The fun times of just turning off the road onto whatever trail we want are coming to an end and is the very thing that is going to get ALL our trails taken away. I wish that was not true, but that's just how it is. We live in one of the biggest tree hugger states around. And us and our Soobs are one of the biggest evils in the world to them. And they are very active politicly in stopping us. We behave. They back down some. We go willy nilly, they start locking gates. Sad time for wheelers. Yeah there is almost too much snow now. Even Wildcat is already impossible for my Soob. Pics came back from the 4x4 group's hangover run up there on the first and I'm glad I decided to skip it. I would have just been getting pulled around like a sled. All I've heard from veteran wheelers is that Goat has been an un-inforced off limits area for a very long time. For all we know it'll stay that way. And as popular as it is it would seem they don't care about us being up there. I've even went to the top once and when I got there. There was what I always feared seeing. Trucks with official markings on them. And uniforms. Amazingly the only thing they said to me was "Nice view huh?" I about pissed myself. The gate was open though so thats proly why they left me alone. After that I started only going up at night. And that was the only time I've seen patrol trucks up around Goat. (Also there have been city of portland trucks up there with service crews.) Seen em a few times out on La Dee. Afterall. They put these scary laws in effect cause they don't have the money or manpower to properly mark trails and have patrols. So they just say no to everything and hope we listen. I'm just hoping that does not change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazmataz Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 yeah same here. as long as the gate is open then there should not be any problems going up there on the main road. its been awhile since i have actually seen the gate to the top closed. atleast 2 years that i can think of. the rock quarry is a big no,no but then i have always known that for as long as i've been going up there but went back there anyway. i figured they won't know i'm back there unless they seen me go or see me coming out but thats still a big risk. some of the roads on Goat are primitive roads and i guess if they are a map they should be ok to go same with Squaw. i would think Lolo Pass would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 The top gate has been closed all year. they seem to open it in the winter. proly not wanting to deal with opening it in the snow if they need to work on the towers. Yeah I kinda stopped hitting up the rock quarry at the bottom. Went in once a few weeks ago and lost a trim piece climbing that back hill. It's all dug out on one side from some yahoo with an open diff in 2WD or something. and when I stuck it and slid back down (it was greasy) I hit the back corner of the bumper on the ground so hard it popped the trim on the body. Didn't think to look and realized it was gone when I got home. Lolo really has no actual trails, all roads like you say. There are a few up there (Found some 4WD trails on an old map). And I found how to get to them. But concrete blocks the size of minivans are blocking the way. And unless a Soob can climb a vertical cliff face. no way to get around them. And yeah the "trail" up Squaw is considered a road. So it's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 really everything except the TSF area. Is now closed to wheeling. Welcome to the crazy train. We've only got private 4wding places here in South Australia now. With the exception of some beaches 350km away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazmataz Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Welcome to the crazy train. We've only got private 4wding places here in South Australia now. With the exception of some beaches 350km away. WOW! that really sucks! i know we shouldn't be complaining to much. there are alot of places that have less then we do even here in the states but alot of other places also have less or even none i'm sure. so, we should aleast be thankful that we do have a place fairly close by and it is a pretty good place at that. we may have to venture out between St. Helens and Vernonia, there use to be some guys on the forum talk, post pics and some videos of places in that area that we're pretty knarly wheelin places. i think they we're logging road or use to be logging roads. they use to have a club kinda thing going and they even had a name for themselves. anyway, that may be another place to go scout out for us locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) We'll have to check it out. Well. A dude at the FS office in Estacada (I did not talk to him, a guy on the XJ forum, I browse everywhere for wheeling, stopped in today on his way up there for some snow wheeling and asked) says all the forest areas around Goat and outside of Estacada are closed to wheeling with plans (yeah that'll take 20 years) to create a new official trail system. B freakin S. Hopefully it was just some eco-freak working there and told him that cause he hates wheelers. I'm thinking. Unless they plan on 24 hr. patrols up there. The wheeling will go on. It's just too popular and I'm sure 90% of the people who think of heading up there never check to see if they are allowed. I mean giant groups of high schoolers in 'Yotas are common up there. And you know how kids are, they proly don't check in at the office. Almost every time I've went up at night there's a group partying at the top. (amazing there is no trash up there, at least they seem to pack it out) Only problem with that is it'll proly piss 'em off and we'll never get "real" trails. Then you got crap like this. http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/index.htm We have to fight back. And it starts by being educated and responsible about where we put our tires. This is what is going on in our area as well. But ours is not going to be released for the public to see until spring 2009, and will be decided on fall 2009. At that time they will pick clubs and such to help with OHV trail building and maintinace around the Mt.Hood Forest. That is if some hugger group does not get the majority vote and kick us out for good. Example of another districts travel management plan and options: http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/w-w/recreation/ohv/trav-mgt-newsletter-9-08.pdf Edited January 5, 2009 by TeamCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Heres a link. Not here but in Cali, but it's happening all over the country. This is just an example of a meeting on the whole subject. http://www.ravenoffroad.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=3256 This is the part that affects all of us wheelers: "For decades, OHV users drove the forest pretty much as they pleased, following both designated routes and hundreds of miles of unmapped user-created trails. Many of these user-created trails led to dispersed campsites used by hunters, fishermen and horseback riders. Now comes a national mandate, straight from the Secretary of Agriculture, instructing forest supervisors such as Cole to get a better grip on OHV use. From now on, all trails must be part of a designated system. And for user-created trails to become part of that system, each must satisfy a checklist of conditions ranging from environmental and cultural impacts to whether the recreational opportunity they provide is diverse enough." I have a feeling that what we think is going to be a another long buracratic process that we won't have to worry about for years..... is gonna start happening fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael appel Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yea the rv park has been closed but you can take the main rd up and around your just not suppose to go off the trail there is a fire tower up the road and that is the only place me and my friends would go I did talk to a ranger there and that is a very restricted place to wheel because the water from the top of the trail runs to a river that runs down to the reservoir but traveling up the road is ok just not off the trail you never see me up it at all but I do like to run the trail up and around there are a couple lakes and a waterfall up the trail but it is a day drive to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yeah go up far enough and you'll see the other "closed to OHV, watershed" sign at the other end. Then you can play. Ya turn left at the no shooting sign. (you see the backside and it has some b-day party spraypainted on it) And then make your next right after the bridge. Keep going aways there is the gravel pit (you know it) and further up there is the "road" to the top of Squaw (more like a milder version of Firebreak 5 at this point). And keep going and going and you end up south of Gov. Camp. The road is closed due to a washout. But it's Soobable and the only closed sign is at the Gov Camp end. Proly just to keep the tourists safe rather than no one is allowed on it. I don't know if I know the fire tower you are talking about. I tried to go to one over this last summer, I spotted on google earth. I went down the right road. But it had a big orange sign after awhile saying no trespassing. I never was able to get to the tower. :-\ That one was near the intersection after the bridge on the way to the gravel pit. Ya go straight instead of right and there's a little road off to the right that goes down through a clearcut. I missed the sign on my way in but it's up in a tree just before you go out of the woods into the clearcut. Saw it on my way out. it was dark, lights caught it just right. I didn't get there as a river blocked the trail after going back into the woods. And being it was dark and I was alone I figured best not to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Level B service roads, yay, unmaintained, after some warm ice melting days, should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Level B service roads, yay, unmaintained, after some warm ice melting days, should be fun. So I take it a level B road is kind of "uinmaintained". We have some of those. Lolo Pass near me has a fun one with some nice waterbars that are high on one side almost a river on the dug out side. But it only makes for 4 neat little obsticals then it's just another gravel road. I wish I could get my Soob to MI and run down some of the fire roads up north. My dad has property up there and you need 4WD (or just gun it and jump stuff, did it with a rental car once, hehe, bashed the floor in on a rock, needless to say I'm on Enterprise's black list now, that little Pontiac was kind of a mess, still drove fine though). Lots of cool sandy service roads with pits to play in here and there. And as its all "roads" they are proly not going anywhere, or the gas companies can't get to thier wells. (two of those on my dad's property) They do still want you to have an ORV permit on your vehicle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Sad time to be a wheeler, worse time to be the guy on the dirt bike. I expect a universal OHV ban within 5 years. Everywhere. No legal areas. (not that there are legal public lands in NYS...) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Sad time to be a wheeler, worse time to be the guy on the dirt bike. I expect a universal OHV ban within 5 years. Everywhere. No legal areas. (not that there are legal public lands in NYS...) Dave Well they are working on more "parks" for us. But then the problem will be that we'll all be crammed into ORV parks and that in itself has problems. Don't know that they'll get rid of us completely though. We do have some organizations fighting for us. But they mostly focus on the high exposure trails. Things like the Moab area, Rubicon, ect. What we gotta do is is let them know about our little corners of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well they are working on more "parks" for us.But then the problem will be that we'll all be crammed into ORV parks and that in itself has problems. Don't know that they'll get rid of us completely though. We do have some organizations fighting for us. But they mostly focus on the high exposure trails. Things like the Moab area, Rubicon, ect. What we gotta do is is let them know about our little corners of the woods. Unfortunately more users on trails (due to fewer trails) accelerates trail wear, which the greens then use as an excuse to close the trails. All OHV users face a superbly funded, superbly organized, politically savvy enemy with senators and crongresscritters bought and paid for. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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