byguessnbygolly Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Was I happy to find this forum ! I'm new to USMB, just found you today as I was spending about my eighth hour trying to figure out what part I needed to fix my 2002 OB Legacy H6. I see there's some real pros lurking here, and hopefully this will be an easy one. Please help. My idler puller blew up - the pulley (nearly bearingless) was stuck at an angle between the pulley shaft and the casting the pulley shaft looks like it's part of a housing (?) The housing was gouged pretty bad by the pulley so I don't think I can just slide on a new pulley . . . must I purchase a housing that holds that shaft? The shaft doesn't unscrew from the housing does it? Am I misunderstanding what I'm seeing? Geez, I don't know if I'm explaining this very well . . . anyone have any ideas on this? :-\ Thank you. I bought a CD from ebay for my vehicle that was supposed to have everything under the sun on it . . . but I cannot find a picture of what this thing looks like. I could post a digital picture of what I've got if that would be of any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Welcome to the USMB Mr. Golly Please read through this post, it might yieild some interesting info http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 try www.1stsubaru.com. Someplace in there is a picture of the drive belt system. Also do a search here for idler pully (alot of timing belts will come up but there are some drive belts in there too). I do have one troubling observation, I am seeing more and more of these type problems popping up. How many miles are on your car? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 yep, this is a common issue with the H6 engines. fortunately it's easy to fix and not that expensive. although hopefully it didn't let loose and damage anything else for you? there's a recent thread about it here, i imagine it's the link that Skip posted above but i didn't click on it. replace the entire tensioner as an assembly. just call Subaru or order it online. are you going to be doing the work yourself? i'm going to replace mine in the next couple weeks as preventative maintenance while i'm doing some other work to it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Welcome to the USMB Mr. Golly Please read through this post, it might yieild some interesting info http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93945 Thanks for your reply and welcome, Skip! I'd already searched and read the posts related to idler pulleys before I posted. This is a generic pulley bearing failure, but the damage caused by the bearingless pulley lodged between the shaft and the casting the shaft protrudes from (or so it appears to me) is damaged, and so is the shaft. I guess what I need to know is how do I get a new shaft for the idler pulley? The shaft looks like it is part of a casting(?) so I'm guessing I need to purchase the casting with the shaft (?) Unless that shaft unscrews from the casting(?) Maybe this is something I need to go to the dealer with, I'd like to do it myself but if I can't get a part number or blow up of the assembly I'll have to. Hopefully I've done a better job of explaining my problem(s) this time Thanks again, gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 try www.1stsubaru.com. Someplace in there is a picture of the drive belt system. Also do a search here for idler pully (alot of timing belts will come up but there are some drive belts in there too). I do have one troubling observation, I am seeing more and more of these type problems popping up. How many miles are on your car? nipper Howdy nipper, 124K gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 It might be good if you could get a picture and post it on here so that we can see exactly what damage it did. Oh and welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 yep, this is a common issue with the H6 engines. fortunately it's easy to fix and not that expensive. although hopefully it didn't let loose and damage anything else for you? there's a recent thread about it here, i imagine it's the link that Skip posted above but i didn't click on it. replace the entire tensioner as an assembly. just call Subaru or order it online. are you going to be doing the work yourself? i'm going to replace mine in the next couple weeks as preventative maintenance while i'm doing some other work to it anyway. Thanks for the reply gary (my name too) but it's not the tensioner assy, (although I will replace it at the same time). I probably didn't explain it very well, it's an odd problem apparently. I replied to Skip with a better version of what my problem is . . . hopefully that will get the ball rollin' Thanks again for the reply, it is appreciated! gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 gotcha gary. one of the online subaru parts dealers has some exploded views of parts when you search. subarugenuineparts.com subarupartsforyou.com mikescarffsubaru liberty subaru one of those i think shows the parts and their locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thank you for the links Mr. Gary, I will check them out! gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have seen 2 listings that the bearing alone that will fit is " 6203-2rsj " (generic bearing designation) Of course, the other hardware has to be in good shape and you have to have (or be able to fab) a bearing puller to swap out the bearing. A quick google shows that you can get it at napa with that part number. Note that this info is pretty reliable, probably, but I haven't swapped mine out yet. +90K, so I'm going to do it before too long, I think. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks for the reply Dave ! I may replace the bearing on the belt tensioner assy, but my idler pulley is toast . . . I don't even know if the shaft for the idler pulley is still useable - I sort of doubt it . . . After the bearings let loose the pulley jammed between the shaft and the engine so I had to pry it out. I think I'll have to get a new shaft for the pulley to mount on because it's sort of tore up from the pulley. Think I can find anything on line about the shaft the idler pulley mounts on? Nope . . . Good luck with your repairs Dave, and thanks again. gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Gary, for the help of others helping the item in question is the support shaft for #5 in this picture My sugg. is go to a dealer and have them order it Take the picture if you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Good news and bad news . . . the good news is I went out and took pictures of the damaged area, and since I was out there and curious about the tensioner bearing as well . . . I pulled the tensioner pulley off, removed the fairly good bearing from it (wasn't difficult) . . . and discovered the bearing fit on the shaft of the damaged idler shaft almost exactly as it did on the tensioner. I've had a lot of bearing experience, but that method of "fitting" a bearing was new to me . . . nothing wrong with it, just new to me. So I ordered two new bearings $15.10 total including shipping and a new belt from summit for $27.64 including shipping which means this little ordeal will cost me a total of $42.74 and a bunch of "learning" time. Cool ! The bad news is I'm sorry I didn't figure this out before sounding the alarm to you guys . . . so, sorry for that, but thanks guys, you're a great bunch. This is the first thing to fail on that baby since it was new ! My "toy" is a 95 Mustang I stuck a 460 in . . . not pretty but it does put a smile on your face when they're smokin' If I can help any of you guys out let me know, I'm no subaru expert, but I've been around a while (58 yrs) and I've picked up a thing here and there. Take care, and thanks again for all your helps gentlemen ! gary (oh, I must add: I'm really not a ford fan, I just ended up with the right parts to make it happen) Edited January 8, 2009 by byguessnbygolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 awesome info folks. so how hard were the bearings to get out of the tensioner and idler? don't you need a press for that? i wonder what fails on the tensioner - the bearings or the spring loaded mechanism? do you just remove that huge air dam over the top of the engine and that gives enough access to those pulleys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=160263#post160263 Same thing on the other board nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 thanks nipper! from that link: "belt tensioner and idler pulleys for the H6 (at least 2001-2003) is bearing# " 6203-2rsj" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Mr. Gary, Yup, pulling off the top cover for the engine gave me enough clearance to remove both pulleys (just the pulleys). It's a little tight but no big deal. It's easy to get the bearing out, you'll see when you have the pulley / bearing in your hand. I just uses a punch and hammer, tapping around the outter race until I could see it was beginning to move. This sounds sort of stupid, but it worked . . . after I saw it was capable of moving I slammed the pulley down flat onto a metal plate numerous times and it moved a little with each slam until it came out . . . patience is required The other pulley was rusty and I just punched around until I had it out as far as it would go on a flat surface . . . whatever, you get the idea - you'll figure it out - no big deal. Now pressing the new ones in may be more interesting, but I plan on using the ouside race of the blown up bearing to drive the new bearing into the pulley . . . and if I don't think I can do it safely that way I will use my hydraulic jack to press the buggers in there. No worries Oh yea, I'm VERY happy with how this worked out. Take care amigo. gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 if you have the time put the bearings in you freezer (or outside which ever is colder) and heat the housing to about 120 degrees in ?? Work fast and the bearing will go in much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have an 02 H6 with about 80K on it. So far so good, but if this happens to mine, then basically I get my hands on a couple of 6203-2rsj bearings and it looks like I would save about $100 bucks in parts. If my mechainc does the work to do the bearing repalcement in less than 2 hours, I win. Can I source them anywhere off the net or does anyone have a recommendation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Can I source them anywhere off the net or does anyone have a recommendation?+1any one find something, post here. i'd like to order them too. did someone mention earlier they ordered these from Summit or was that something else i'm thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) I have an 02 H6 with about 80K on it. So far so good, but if this happens to mine, then basically I get my hands on a couple of 6203-2rsj bearings and it looks like I would save about $100 bucks in parts. If my mechainc does the work to do the bearing repalcement in less than 2 hours, I win. Can I source them anywhere off the net or does anyone have a recommendation? I believe you can get them from NAPA, walk in or their online store. There are probably dozens of outfits that will get them to you over the web or by phone, as long as the bearing is not from china it will probably be of good quality. Some chinese bearings *may* be good, but you never know. Do not know if the Napa bearings are SKF, timken, chinese, etc... BTW the '6203' designator means its: outside diameter: 40mm inside diameter: 17mm thickness: 12mm other bearings will work as long as they're sealed and are '6203' bearings. MSC has a "6203-rsjem" that I believe will work. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=3441751&PMT4NO=56236298 6203-2RSL is a double-sealed bearing. Do the factory bearings have a seal on one side or both? Dave Edited January 9, 2009 by CNY_Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byguessnbygolly Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Both sides are sealed (rubber) I bought mine with the metal shield for the heck of it - don't really know if it's better or not. 6203 is a very common bearing . . . bought mine on line for about 6 bucks each. If they prove to be junk I'll just replace them again, it's not that difficult (on my 02 anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 6203 is a very common bearing .no kidding, i'm 99 percent sure the XT6 (1988-1991 old school Subaru, the original subaru H6!), has some 6203 bearings as well. Maybe even the serpentine idler i think??!! i tried *pressing* some bearings out of an old XT6 pulley and it was darn near impossible without a press. i mean i'm sure it's possible for someone who knows what they're doing, but i ended up destroying the pulley entirely, cracking huge chucks off it and the pulley still never budged. maybe that's why the newer H6 bearings fail, the bearing is too loose/sloppy and not tight enough fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 no kidding, i'm 99 percent sure the XT6 (1988-1991 old school Subaru, the original subaru H6!), has some 6203 bearings as well. Maybe even the serpentine idler i think??!! i tried *pressing* some bearings out of an old XT6 pulley and it was darn near impossible without a press. i mean i'm sure it's possible for someone who knows what they're doing, but i ended up destroying the pulley entirely, cracking huge chucks off it and the pulley still never budged. maybe that's why the newer H6 bearings fail, the bearing is too loose/sloppy and not tight enough fit? If that's the case there is a flavor of loctite made just for that. But, if there are no signs that the pulley has been moving around on the bearing, that might not be a problem. These bearings do spin pretty quick- are these pulleys 1/2 the size of the crank pulley? 1/3? 1/4? Lets say they are 1/3 the size, at 3000rpm these would be spinning along at 9000rpm, not much for a bearing rated for 24000rpm, but if a bearing rated for 12000rpm was used that's 75% of rated load at cruising speed. At 6000rpm the bearing would be spinning at 18000rpm, and there are SKF bearings in this size for which that would be overspec (unless the #s in the chart do not mean what I think they do...). So maybe a subie design engineer got sloppy and spec'd bearings with too low an RPM rating? http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?newlink=&action=search&lang=en&prodid=1050010203 Maybe someone can read us off the exact info off the bearing and we can see what the specs are? (hint hint byguessandbygolly, we aren't done withya yet!) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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