mountaingoatgruff Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) between an Impreza L and an Impreza Sport? i saw a sport wagon and it had the two-tone outback thing going, but it didn't seem to sit higher, had no fog lights or roof rack, interior looked the exact same as my L's and i couldn't guess what engine it had. had the same headlights as my 93 L, so it was an older one. is the Impreza Sport the "OBS" that i've seen refered to around here? do they usually have all the OB upgrades? Edited January 12, 2009 by mountaingoatgruff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 between an Impreza L and an Impreza Sport? i saw a sport wagon and it had the two-tone outback thing going, but it didn't seem to sit higher, had no fog lights or roof rack, interior looked the exact same as my L's and i couldn't guess what engine it had. had the same headlights as my 93 L, so it was an older one. is the Impreza Sport the "OBS" that i've seen refered to around here? do they usually have all the OB upgrades? yes the sport is the OBS....outback sport. The biggest difference is the two tone but they also come with different tires as well. The Impreza came with 195 60 15 and the OBS came with 205 60 15 So I think they might sit a little higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 my 93 L came with 175's on 14" steels. i'm mostly interested in the front suspension differences. i've given up on the 93 - i rebuilt the trans w/ my dad and it didn't work so my dad insisted on "loaning" me the cash to have a shop re-rebuild the trans. we did nothing wrong, there's just an electrical gremlin in there so that was $2000 wasted (thanks dad). has a new tps, new vss1, new o2 sensor, tested good tcm from another imp... $3000 later nobody can figure it out, not even the trans shop. there's gotta be something wrong in the harness but nobody can find it and i'm done looking. i hate automatics and here i am bending over backwards to get one to behave... anyways, i'm cutting my losses. i found a 97 OBS with some cosmetic and interior damage and a leaky hg for $600. its got an EJ22/5speed and its not fire engine red. i know it'll need a ton of work but if i can swap all the stuff over from the 93 its no big deal. i intend to swap: front hubs with wheel bearings and axles as whole assemblies (are 4EAT and 5MT axles the same?) ball joints front brake discs & pads (or will the 97's abs prevent this?) xenon headlight bulbs cd deck and stereo mounting/trim front seats bunches of trim and maybe the carpet if i'm up to it complete rear hatch with struts front pass inner door panel and the wheels even if the hg's really are shot (i haven't verified it yet) i'd rather start over fixing that than keep digging my grave with this 93's trans... i'm planning on picking up the car tomorrow so if any of these parts aren't compatable - please let me know! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 You should be able to swap most of this stuff over. Even the brakes should be fine..the ABS ring is on the cv axle. I'm sure there are a few small differences in stuff but most should be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 i compared part numbers at partsamerica.com and everything they've got listed except the brake pads will swap over, pads are different. my main concern is with the abs system. i want to use the 93 hubs since they've got brand new oem wheel bearings and seals and the 97's got 200k on it's bearings. is there abs stuff mounted on the 97's hubs and will the 97 calipers bolt to the 93 hubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 MGG - i know you're done with it and don't want to hear this, but it's so easy to find low mileage and cheap used automatic transmissions that there's really no better option particularly for someone that can do the work themselves. subaru automatics are very reliable and because of that used ones are really cheap and easy to find. two swaps are way more cost effective than a rebuild but even then i've never had to swap twice. keep it cool and the ATF changed and they're good to go. Even the brakes should be fine..the ABS ring is on the cv axle. this is on newer subarus, not the year OBS he's talking about. but that shouldn't matter just yet. to be sure - you want to swap the 93 stuff into the 97? the 97 has some minor changes from the earlier ones, but much is the same. and you're right, the OBS is the Impreza Outback Sport. all the body panels should swap out if needed, the earlier models don't have the cladding. the 97 will have rear drum brakes. annoying to me, i hate drum brakes. maybe you like them. if your 93 has discs you can swap those into the rear of the 97. just swap the entire rear hub and ebrake cable from the 93 int othe 97. the axles "should" be fine. there's one really odd ball axle out there, but i think it's just the 93 FWD impreza's, not the AWD. other than that the 5MT and 4EAT are identical and as you know the axles are the same left to right as well. as for the hubs. they are interchangeable but the 97 has ABS, not sure about the 93. the ABS sensor is in the hub. the 97 Sensor does not cross list to any years earlier than 96 at the most i don't think. i'm not sure if ABS fitment is a size thing (meaning you get the sensor for the hub - which would be a 93 for you), or if it's an electronic thing (mean you want it to match the vehicle. or you can leave it disconnected if you don't want it. the front brakes will be identical, swap away. everything looks like swap material to me, so tear it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 my haynes shows legacies have the wheel speed sensor mounted in the hub/knuckle so i'd assume impreza's do, too. looks like those 93 hubs won't work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 MGG - i know you're done with it and don't want to hear this, but it's so easy to find low mileage and cheap used automatic transmissions that there's really no better option particularly for someone that can do the work themselves. subaru automatics are very reliable and because of that used ones are really cheap and easy to find. two swaps are way more cost effective than a rebuild but even then i've never had to swap twice. keep it cool and the ATF changed and they're good to go. this is on newer subarus, not the year OBS he's talking about. but that shouldn't matter just yet. to be sure - you want to swap the 93 stuff into the 97? the 97 has some minor changes from the earlier ones, but much is the same. and you're right, the OBS is the Impreza Outback Sport. all the body panels should swap out if needed, the earlier models don't have the cladding. the 97 will have rear drum brakes. annoying to me, i hate drum brakes. maybe you like them. if your 93 has discs you can swap those into the rear of the 97. just swap the entire rear hub and ebrake cable from the 93 int othe 97. the axles "should" be fine. there's one really odd ball axle out there, but i think it's just the 93 FWD impreza's, not the AWD. other than that the 5MT and 4EAT are identical and as you know the axles are the same left to right as well. as for the hubs. they are interchangeable but the 97 has ABS, not sure about the 93. the ABS sensor is in the hub. the 97 Sensor does not cross list to any years earlier than 96 at the most i don't think. i'm not sure if ABS fitment is a size thing (meaning you get the sensor for the hub - which would be a 93 for you), or if it's an electronic thing (mean you want it to match the vehicle. or you can leave it disconnected if you don't want it. the front brakes will be identical, swap away. everything looks like swap material to me, so tear it up! as far as the 93's issues - its not the trans, the trans works beautifully when the electronic control system is working. i can hook up the select monitor with my brother driving and watch the tps signal, vss1 signal and line pressure solenoid signal go bananas outta nowhere. i replaced both sensors and half the trans solenoids but nothing changes. went through the harness twice and now its a bird's nest. it drives like a dream sometimes, other times it neutralizes and searches up and down for what gear to engage. the trans itself is fine and it even has a year waranty now. as for the 93 hubs going into the 97 OBS, its not gonna happen. the 93 has no abs and since the car will be used mostly by my wife with my son i'd like to keep the abs working. i'll probably have a shop swap the bearings over, i need bushings pressed into my hatch's contol arms anyways. overall, i think the 97 will make us much happier. i've been pissed off grumbling about this ugly red a/t pos for weeks now. i'll be glad to strip it, spit on it, sell the shell to a jy and have a nice blue 97 5speed OBS and my wife will just be glad when this whole thing is over! everytime i look at that red toad of a car i wish her 97 legacy never got smashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 you're awesome, love the humor! though i'm sorry it came through such bizarre mechanical issues. our 97 OBS is blue as well. yep, 97 sensors are mounted in the hub. those ABS sensor bolts like to shear all the time if you end up pulling them. make friends with torches and PB blaster before attacking them. but maybe laugh and ignore me, this comes from mr. easterner who usually has at least a little bit of rust to deal with. but even clean ones out here often shear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 the trans itself is fine and it even has a year waranty now. if this is true, sell it seperate. did you ever figure out if it was the trans or the car causing the problem? just out of curiosity, i'd love to see hoe it ran in another car. but who's going to go to that much trouble with thar much risk? good luck with the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 if this is true, sell it seperate. did you ever figure out if it was the trans or the car causing the problem? just out of curiosity, i'd love to see hoe it ran in another car. but who's going to go to that much trouble with thar much risk? good luck with the new one. i'll be parting the 93 as soon as i'm done raiding it for parts myself. i intend on selling the 4eat with warranty paperwork but i haven't worked out a price yet, cost $1800 for the shop rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 got the 97 OBS today drove it home from concord to modesto with no problem. the temp gauge shoots up if you let it idle but i have a feeling the engine is full of air, at 2k rpm's the needle drops like a rock. definitely a leaking hg, though. its a shame - that 2.2 runs smooth and strong and gets great mileage with that 5speed. hg been blown for over a year, the previous owners (real good folks, bs'ed with them for a hour) took care not to overheat it or let the coolant run low (there's 7 empty antifreeze jugs in the back:lol:). the 5speed was replaced with a rebuilt unit by aamco just before the hg's began leaking. paperwork shows warranty on trans just expired a couple months ago. also, 3.90's = better mileage! theives broke in a month ago and stole the system, broke front pass door glass. the glass was replaced already but i'll have to swap parts to fix the rest of the damage. cel is on - code 0440 for evap system. i'll have to look into it. headlight by battery has corrosion, will need to be cleaned & rewired. i plan on swapping the rear hatch, passenger fender, carpet, seats, door panels and some trim from the 93 into the 97. after the nightmare of a time i've had with that a/t 93, i'm glad to do this "easy stuff" fixing this m/t 97 up. plus, my wife and i really like the blue/silver two-tone paint and the vented & scooped hood, much more pleasant than the red toad. i'll post pics once its presentable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Nice! That's my favorite color scheme on the OBS cars. When my '96 OBW wears out, I'll be on the look out for one of those. What kind of mileage did you get on the way home? I've always wondered what those get with the 2.2. If I can get 31mpg with my OBW on the highway, these ought to be a bit better. the temp gauge shoots up if you let it idle but i have a feeling the engine is full of air, at 2k rpm's the needle drops like a rock. Could be a bad water pump too, But I suppose either way it will be taken care of in the reseal eh? Speaking of which, how many miles on the engine? Are you gonna rebuild it or find a JY ditty? Good luck, I hope this works out better than the toad! Will- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Nice! That's my favorite color scheme on the OBS cars. When my '96 OBW wears out, I'll be on the look out for one of those. What kind of mileage did you get on the way home? I've always wondered what those get with the 2.2. If I can get 31mpg with my OBW on the highway, these ought to be a bit better. Could be a bad water pump too, But I suppose either way it will be taken care of in the reseal eh? Speaking of which, how many miles on the engine? Are you gonna rebuild it or find a JY ditty? Good luck, I hope this works out better than the toad! Will- the car has 209k on it. i've got a decent 95 longblock with 160k that i'll swap in there for now. i'm debating about entirely rebuilding the 97 so i'll have it ready and waiting for either of my 2.2 cars but that'll be down the road. either way, i don't really want to just slap new hg's on a 209k mile bottom end. i can't be sure exactly what the mileage was driving home, but i'd say it was certainly over 30mpg despite the car's issues. does anyone know, if i put earlier pistons in the 97 EJ22 will it be non-interference? from what i've read, 97 and up are interference because they used taller pistons for a higher compression ratio. if i rebuild the engine, i want it to be non-interference - the hp cost is far worth the reliability gain to me. Edited January 12, 2009 by mountaingoatgruff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've always wondered what those get with the 2.2. If I can get 31mpg with my OBW on the highway, these ought to be a bit better.huck says the older EJ18 FWD manuals can get 40mpg. it seems like maybe it's not true, but i thought the OBS are higher off the ground than older ones. if that's true...add that, and roof racks, hood scoop, can detract from mileage. does your OBW have a roof rack, 31 is darn fine mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 huck says the older EJ18 FWD manuals can get 40mpg. it seems like maybe it's not true, but i thought the OBS are higher off the ground than older ones. if that's true...add that, and roof racks, hood scoop, can detract from mileage. does your OBW have a roof rack, 31 is darn fine mileage. yeah, its got the factory roof rack and hood scoop. it sits lower than the 93, though. i'm sure its tire size - the 93 has 185 75 14's from a legacy and the OBS has 195 60 15's on aftermarket rims. i haven't put them side by side but i'm swapping the motors in the OBS right now and there's noticeably less space under it. i'll be putting the 185 14's on the OBS. any word on those pistons, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 yeah, its got the factory roof rack and hood scoop.i thought it would, i think all 97's had those. it sits lower than the 93, i don't have a good eye for that stuff. i think it's Zap or edrach that has a great write up and info on here about swapping the rear springs/struts to get rid of that sagging rear that OBS's typically have. any word on those pistons, anyone?don't know. seems like it would have to be pistons. i'd start with cars101.com and see what they say about the impreza EJ22. they often have commentary that might shed light on the 96-97 EJ22 changes. i'm on dial up or i'd take a look myself. kind of curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 huck says the older EJ18 FWD manuals can get 40mpg. it seems like maybe it's not true, but i thought the OBS are higher off the ground than older ones. if that's true...add that, and roof racks, hood scoop, can detract from mileage. does your OBW have a roof rack, 31 is darn fine mileage. Yes it does have a roof rack. I should qualify that answer by saying that's the Non-winterblend gas figure. In the winter 29 is the best I ever get, 27 being the average. I figured the OBS to get a bit better since it's a lighter car. fueleconoy.gov lists them as being the same (well 1 mpg different) as each other. But it seems to me the weight difference would equal some difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I figured the OBS to get a bit better since it's a lighter car. fueleconoy.gov lists them as being the same (well 1 mpg different) as each other. But it seems to me the weight difference would equal some difference.the difference seems smaller than i'd expect. they *can* get good mileage, but don't seem very consistent or predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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