bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hey Everyone, First time poster, have been searching and reading a lot though My problem is this: My 4WD no longer comes on. I know this has been posted a lot, but none of those things seemed to help me. Here is the deal: I first bought the car middle of last winter from my cousin for 60 bucks (price of the battery he just put in it ). Basically, the exhaust fell off at the cat and muffler, and the quoted price to fix was the same as the 1994 Loyale he eventually bought. I just had my buddy weld the old back on Still need to weld in a muffler though So, I got the car with the idea that it would be my winter driver (Boston, some snow ya know), as my DD is an s13 240sx hatch putting about 300hp down with an SR20DET (yeh... i know... KA is better w/e). Basically a no go in the snow car, esp with the 255 17" summer tires. So I got everything working (turns out the radiator went bad at my cousins, had been sitting for a year before I picked it up), so I replaced the radiator, water pump, t stat, hoses, etc. Full tune up (air/fuel/oil filters, oil change, PCV, plugs, wires, dist cap/rotor, etc), and it seemed to run pretty damn good. So, I left it sitting until this weekend (finally got 4 new tires for it), and finally got it on the road for the snow we got over the winter. HOWEVER the 4WD switch basically stopped working ! Very annoying on my unstoppable winter subaru. So, here it is: It would come on intermediately (once in like 100 pushes) this weekend, and the last time I got it working was Monday morning. Now it just doesnt seem to want to come on at all. My HVAC stuff all works (ie vent controls). I hear the solinoid kick in with the switch. I took off the vac lines and confirmed that there is vacuum on each output depending on the 4WD switch (ie, seems to be working ?). I have tried direct connecting the vac to the 4WD actuator input thing (sorry... not sure the term, its on the transmission, driver's side), and nothing. While the car was off, I got under the car and confirmed the little pivot thing on the back of the transmission (passenger's side) moved freely. While the car is on, it does not move though (I figure that is normal?). So, my question is, is the vacuum actuator thing ? Could I have broken something else ? The rear end was skipping around on sunday, but it was in FWD, and I am pretty sure it was just the drum sticking (went away with 5 minutes of driving), so ionno. The only thing I think it might be is the solenoid thing on the transmission that activates the lever for the 4WD, as it did not move at all when I put the direct vacuum to it. Is there a better way to test it ? Or could it be that the lever wont move while the car is on, so something is wrong with that ? Thanks guys, sorry for the newbie questions, I am new to the Subarus, but I have always loved them (few friends with STis and WRXs, parents have an 05 Legacy GT), and I would love to get this working nicely, as I thinks its a pretty damn cool car. BTW, these forums are freaking awesome ! When I first got the car, I thought I would never find information for it, as I had never even heard of a Loyale Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well you can try chainging the tranny fluid. Also put the car in low and see if that forces the rear wheels to engage. Its very possible that the clutches are shot that make the AWD work (slipping). Double check to make sure there is no fuse in the FWD holder under the hood. You dont say how many miules are on this car, but it sounds like the clutches are tired. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well, its a 5 speed, and has 192k on the odo runs really well for that! The clutch seems to grip fine, not sure if that what you were talking about ? Also, there is no FWD fuse.... its a part time 4WD with the switch button on the shifter. I had thought that it a was basically this : Switch -> vacuum switch -> actuator thing on tranny -> cable -> lever to push rod in to lock front and rear. I am probably wrong, as my crappy Hayes manual mentions none of this *sigh*. So are there really clutches somewhere ? I mean that bar never moves even though the vacuum switch (solenoid) does activate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Ok my fault, i thought it was an auto. Are you sure you font have awd? Usually in a manual it works or you have Torque bind How are you figuring out that you dont have it. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well, before, it would always come on, IE press button, the dash light comes on saying 4WD (so badass). Now, no more light when I press the button. I had read that the switch for the light is actually on the transmission, so when it engages to 4WD, the circuit is connected, leading my to believe that that it is not activating. Also, when i press the button while driving, I do not feel it come on at all (ie on dry pavement, it does not feel like it is on ie skipping on turns). I know bad test on dry pavement, but I have no other good way to check If it is torque bind, any way to free it ? As I said, the lever on the back of the transmisson move freely unless the car is on. When the car is on, I cannot move it (ie manually put it into 4WD by hand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 man oh man my brain is off. i've made a mess of this post . Ok so its a push button 4wd on demand system. This is probably as simple as a dead vac solenoid or broken vac line in the system. I am not familiar with these so I can't swear to it, as I have never owned one. But this sounds like it whould be something simple. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Heh, its ok! thanks for responding ! I thought too it would be a vac issue (seems the most ussual suspect), but, it does seem to be getting vacuum at the switching solenoid (i hear it activate on the switch, and I confirmed that it switchs the vacuum outputs depending on the switch). Also, I tried deleting that hole item and hooking the vac line directly to the 4WD line, and nothing happens Maybe the vacuum is not strong enough ? Would that do it ? I will try to get a hand pump or something tomorrow at the parts store to test if it could be... thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The part time 4wd ones don't get torque bind. Or... you could say that they have torque bind by design all the time when in 4wd... semantics Anyway -- it sounds like you found the actual lever that is supposed to engage the rear drive, and it won't move into the 4wd position even if you push it there by hand instead of with the vacuum acuator? If so, it sounds like it could have something wrong inside the transmission perhaps. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Can also be a tired diaphram. Just throw a vac gauge on the eingine to make sure you have a healthy enough vac at that port. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 It will move into 4WD, but only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, I can no longer move it by hand. Also, the AWD light does not appear to come on even if I move the lever by hand. I will investigate more tomorrow with that lever. If it is something in the tranny... that sucks ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 first off: do you have any other reason to believe that it isn't working? did start the car, and see if the lever moves with the button or not? What I'm getting at, is if the problem might just be with the indicator light. otherwise, if I'm reading this correctly (correct me if this is wrong). you have vacuum to and from the solenoids (and it switches lines with the switch like it should). and the lever moves freely at the trans by hand, but not from the switch. assuming that the 4WD system works. it could be: vacuum leak between the solenoid and the diaphragm on the trans faulty diaphragm broken cable between the diaphragm and the lever I believe the push-button 4WD trannies use a clutch pack to transfer power to the rear end. BUT, if these were failing, the light would still come on, you just wouldn't have 4WD. also, yes, the PT4WD systems do have torque bind while in 4WD. that's why there's a 2WD setting. You should be able to manually switch it to 4WD, start the car, drive in a tight circle on dry pavement, and feel significant bind (don't make a habit of this, it's hard on the car). ALSO, WELCOME!!! and a huge pat on the back for searching through existing posts to find the solution yourself!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It will move into 4WD, but only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, I can no longer move it by hand. Also, the AWD light does not appear to come on even if I move the lever by hand. I will investigate more tomorrow with that lever. If it is something in the tranny... that sucks ;( That's odd, as the 4wd is on the tailshaft, and if the transmission is in nuetral, that should be the same whether the engine is running or not. Unless, it's not the transmission that's preventing it, but the vacuum diaphram, still connected to it, is not letting you manually move it when the engine is applying vacuum ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 ^I haven't had a push-button 4WD car. but my RX trans is extremely hard to move by hand if the car is running (vacuum lines removed). even if the car is in neutral, the input shaft is spinning, and circulating fluid.....that's my theory anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I believe Mr. Z hits a good ball here "but the vacuum diaphram, still connected to it, is not letting you manually move it when the engine is applying vacuum ??" You might try by passing the solenoids by running the vacuum line directly to the proper side of the vacuum diaphragm. To find which line to the diaphram this is should be a simple matter for you, as you sound like you know your beans. It is possilble you have a solenoid that is leaking and thus cancelling the offset pressure on the diaphragm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakgwailo Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 So here is an update: This morning reverse did not seem to really want to go (had been playing with the lever last night), so i just kind of ramped it out and went on my way. On the way to work. After I left the spot, I pressed the button a few times, and all the sudden it magically started working again, and now it engages and disengages every time I press the button. So.... , shall I chalk it up to magical gremlins ? LOL! BTW, thanks for the help everyone ! In celebration, I even stopped to get a car wash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frompkin Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 You washed it!!! What were you thinking! Now the 4wd will fail again. On these EA82's, it's very important not to disturb the delicate balance of dirt on the body panels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 You washed it!!! What were you thinking! Now the 4wd will fail again. On these EA82's, it's very important not to disturb the delicate balance of dirt on the body panels... Structural dirt that is ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 the cable connecting the diaphragm to the lever may want some lube. Or the lever itself needs it. they do tend to bind at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It will move into 4WD, but only when the engine is not running. When the engine is running, I can no longer move it by hand. Also, the AWD light does not appear to come on even if I move the lever by hand. I will investigate more tomorrow with that lever. If it is something in the tranny... that sucks ;( Try it with the engine running, but the clutch pedal depressed. It wouldn't hurt to change the gear oil in the tranny anyway, use a quart of Rislone in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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