looking for info! higher power ea82t nix n match

[subiemech85]

basically looking in the cookbook for the right recipe

not looking for more than 150hp, as that seems to be the limit of cheap reliability

 

and don't even mention EJ swap

 

came across this tidbit: http://

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69302&highlight=piston

Thing is - all that work is a huge waste of money when there's EJ22T's out there to be found that don't need any of the special work to be good to 300+ HP - something you will NEVER make reliably with an EA82T. 200 HP is possible, but 175 is more likely the highest you really want to go for reliability. The race spec EA82T's were 170.

 

GD

 

and also found this juicy morsel: http://www.prosubaru.com/tech/engswap.htm

 

All non-turbo camshafts are identical year to year, and have a larger lift and duration than Turbo cams, good for a calculated 5-10hp on a stock Turbo motor. Finally, use of non-turbo pistons in a turbo motor WILL work perfectly, and is how we rebuild ALL of ours. This will give 130hp instead of the meager 111hp, the only drawback is you must either retard the timing 2°or use premium fuel (93). Add non-turbo cams to that and you have close to 137hp!!!

 

also considering piston options for 92mm bore: http://www.prosubaru.com/tech/engspecs.htm

 

looks like ea71 ea81 ea82 er27 ej205 ez36 all share the same bore

 

given that, which of these pistons will connect with the rods, fit in the case, increase the CR, also what is the length from cl of wrist pin to top of crown and to bottom of skirt???

[Gloyale]

 

All non-turbo camshafts are identical year to year, and have a larger lift and duration than Turbo cams, good for a calculated 5-10hp on a stock Turbo motor. Finally, use of non-turbo pistons in a turbo motor WILL work perfectly, and is how we rebuild ALL of ours. This will give 130hp instead of the meager 111hp, the only drawback is you must either retard the timing 2°or use premium fuel (93). Add non-turbo cams to that and you have close to 137hp!!!

 

This isn't acurate about the cams.

 

There are 4 or 5 different factory cams used in EA82s

 

85-86 carbed, and turbo use the same cam. non-turbo MPFI, and SPFI each used a different one.

 

87, all SPFI and Carbed used the original SPFI cam from 86. Turbo and Non turbo MPFI got new, specific cams.

 

88-94 No carbs. SPFI cam remained same. Turbo stayed the same. non turbo MPFI got a very long duration cam to match the Spyder intake.

 

 

This is just off the top of my head, but I am certain there are at least this many different cams

[The Scooby]

that all sounds fine and dandy and all running N/A pistons, but that will increase your C/R so high you will be in the 93+ octane area, if you want it reliable then run the stock pistons but have the tops ceramic coated as well as the CC on the heads, that will keep the heat down and have less knock. so you can run higher boost and more timing.

 

also i recommend some kind of header, up-pipe, VF11 turbo, HKS 3inch down pipe with a 2.5inch cat-back exhaust. also i would recommend a ATWIC with a heat exchanger on the front of the car. also a oil cooler wouldn't be a bad idea as well.

 

also i would stud the block. with that stuff and some kind of EMS and tuning you should be able to push 1bar of boost (14psi) and be around 130hp.

[joostvdw]

that all sounds fine and dandy and all running N/A pistons, but that will increase your C/R so high you will be in the 93+ octane area, if you want it reliable then run the stock pistons but have the tops ceramic coated as well as the CC on the heads, that will keep the heat down and have less knock. so you can run higher boost and more timing.

 

also i recommend some kind of header, up-pipe, VF11 turbo, HKS 3inch down pipe with a 2.5inch cat-back exhaust. also i would recommend a ATWIC with a heat exchanger on the front of the car. also a oil cooler wouldn't be a bad idea as well.

 

also i would stud the block. with that stuff and some kind of EMS and tuning you should be able to push 1bar of boost (14psi) and be around 130hp.

 

With all this you will be easily pushing 150-160hp, at 0,8bar with 2,5'' open TBE I'm already at 150hp (even though I started at 136hp)

 

I do agree that oil and intercooler are important, heat is your enemy especially on this engine.. When upping the boost and changing turbo's you need to adress injection, be it with a RRFPR or standalone, it needs modifying.

[subiemech85]

With all this you will be easily pushing 150-160hp, at 0,8bar with 2,5'' open TBE I'm already at 150hp (even though I started at 136hp)

 

I do agree that oil and intercooler are important, heat is your enemy especially on this engine.. When upping the boost and changing turbo's you need to adress injection, be it with a RRFPR or standalone, it needs modifying.

 

what is your recipe for 136hp? seems like a number I see alot over there

I have been checking the clutch catalogs and came across a 300mm clutch for the 100kw ea82t that has been discontinued

http://toc.luk-as.de/toc/en/CF48E582E4444C4939392F1DB84B7A7E.srv;jsessionid=CF48E582E4444C4939392F1DB84B7A7E?view=VIndexFramesetJsp

 

oil cooler will happen

[bheinen74]

ej22t yay x 2 for me one must go, thats a little more than the 150 hp you ask of

[88RxTuner]

Not hard to get 150hp out of the EA82t... Address your fuel, up the boost a little...

I'm running a TD04 turbo at 12psi, header/up pipes I made, 3" downpipe w/ straight thru exhaust, top mount intercooler, some minor fuel mods, a little bit of backyard 'bubba' engineering and my conservative calculations are around 175-180 hp on 95 octane... I've been running this for over a year now, no problems...

 

I would advise against using N/A pistons in any engine that will see more than 6 lbs of boost.... Been there, done that, with less than ideal results.. tweaked turbo swap on a N/A block sure does go like stink... for about 3 runs...

 

p.s. No Studs, but i DID put steel thread inserts in the block and added 10 lb/ft to the head bolt torque specs...

Edited January 29, 2009 by 88RxTuner

[The Scooby]

no offence to anyone, but please don't claim that by your calculations you are at that HP, that helps no one, for all you know you are only at 120HP.

 

until i see dyno numbers i call BS on people anymore.

 

with the mods i stated you should be around 130HP, not 160.

[88RxTuner]

** With all due respect... : Never claimed to be anywhere except " CONSERVATIVELY ESTIMATED"... this is not a hard number, by any means. I will be the first to state that I 'ave not had the chance to get on an AWD dyno recently, being's me out here in the desert they're hard to come by.... But I was dyno'd at 9lbs, that was what got me 156 hp (flywheel, and corrected for drivetrain...)... Yeah, it's been a while, and a couple mods since, but I'm not gonna blow smoke up at anyone saying "I'm better than you!" What's the point??? I said conservative, and I meant it... But, that's beside the point. It should be more than possible to get a shytelode more than 130 hp out of a 117hp (stock) engine, dontcha think...???

Once again, with all due respect, some of us out here aren't out to make ourselve's look hot...........

Edited January 29, 2009 by 88RxTuner

[4WDFrenzy]

Ok, come on people! If you can get 130+ HP out of a 98HP non-vtec Honda motor with a bolt on turbo kit w/ fuel riser and a rom tune, 130-150 crank HP out of an already turbocharged(mind you, maybe not the best designed engine) EA82T should be more than feasible with the proper modifications. One of our members by the SN of presslab has been making leaps and bounds with the electronic side of things. Just do a search. With some engine and tuning know how and a little electronic slight of hand, making respectable HP numbers shouldn't be a problem. Now I'm not talking about making a 400HP monster or anything, but 150-170 crank HP can be done.

 

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

what is your recipe for 136hp? seems like a number I see alot over there

 

It's the same old story as always, the Europeans get the same motors and vehicles as the Japanese, and the Americans get the detuned models. I think that it is payback for WWII or something. Just kidding!

 

Patrick

[4WDFrenzy]

with that stuff and some kind of EMS and tuning you should be able to push 1bar of boost (14psi) and be around 130hp.

 

I'm not trying to start a flame war with you there bud, but those are some very conservative numbers with 1 Bar of boost(14.7 psi). Are you talking about WHP(wheel horsepower) or CHP(crank horsepower)? Now I could see 130WHP, but not CHP. If an EA82T can manage 160CHP, you could be making an estimated 134.4WHP after subtracting for the driveline loss(16-17%). I forgot where I read that(the driveline loss percentage), and no it WAS NOT Wickipedia, but the author was saying that it is the average driveline loss for most AWD systems. How true it is, I don't know, but it is close to the figures for the 2002+ WRXs(Yr.:2002/CHP:227HP/WHP:190.68HP). Don't believe me, look it up.

 

Patrick

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Just for Share some information, let me Tell...

 

... for all you know you are only at 120HP.

 

until i see dyno numbers i call BS on people anymore. ...

 

...that the Rally Racer -not "Ricer" - Version of the EA82T Back in its Time, claimed to Push 190 Hp ... or at Least it says so in some older Magazines...

See:

 

 

...88-94 No carbs. ...

 

That was Only for U.S.A. `cos here they Came Carbed and Fi was just an Option... even Legacies came Carbed here untill mid nineties decade...

... the Europeans get the same motors and vehicles as the Japanese, and the Americans get the detuned models. ...

 

Let me Tell you that we have the same Euro / Asian Models Here at Latin America Too... ...I Believe the U.S.A. Market have more Laws against Car`s Pollution and Regulations, Also the U.S.A. Market have the Biggest Engines as Standard too, While those was just an Option here... we had the Loyale in 1.6L (EA71) and even in 1.3L (EA65) Still available in 1994... and Optional was the 1.8L (EA81 in DL Version, EA82 in GL Version)

Kind Regards.

[4x4_Welder]

Just for Share some information, let me Tell...

 

 

 

...that the Rally Racer -not "Ricer" - Version of the EA82T Back in its Time, claimed to Push 190 Hp ... or at Least it says so in some older Magazines...

 

The thing with that though, those cars didn't have to last for very long. Yes, they were pushed hard, but only for 1/2hr to 45minutes at a time.

Some of the reasoning behind the detuned US models is the combination of low highway speed limits at the time, and expectations of high mileage. If a car theoretically never will go over 55, then you don't need a whole lot of power to move it, and you can turn it down a bit to get 300,000miles without an overhaul.

[The Scooby]

im not trying to state anything, im just saying i don't want to hear conseritave numbers, i want to see it put down.

 

im talking WHP, not CHP. my 98 DOHC 2.5 i swapped into my 96 impreza factory made 164 BHP, and 170TQ, it put down 134AWHP and 141 AWTQ. and i know it was not fast, but then again i know it was no slouch. i built a EA82T a few years back.

 

i did as i posted, ceramic coated pistons and CC's, studded block, home made header/up pipe, VF11 turbo, modded stock injectors to 440 CC's, ausie ATWIC and front exchanger and tank, oil cooler, as well as the full exhaust, it put down 120AWHP, so with ruffly 20% drivetrain loss which is about right compared to my impreza, thats $148CHP.

 

i know i can go further with it with custom pistons, rods, metal head gaskets, extrude honed intake manifold and heads, stainless valves, custom cams, uprated springs, VF39 turbo or T3/T4 and a FMIC and make 200 with tuning. but do you honestly think it will be reliable, and be cheap?

[4WDFrenzy]

but do you honestly think it will be reliable, and be cheap?

But that is not what this thread is about. This is about finding the right combo of parts and mods to reach 150HP. And nobody said anything to the point of horsepower being cheap. I seem to remember Carroll Shelby as saying, "Horsepower costs money. How fast do you want to go?" So of course it isn't going to be cheap. But with turbos like the TD04, it is very possible to break 120WHP, so you can safely put your BS flag away. Heck for all you and I know, 88RxTuner's car could be pushing into the 140-150HP realm with his setup. But without getting it dynoed, we'll never know(And I understand that there isn't a whole lot you can do about that right now 88RxTuner). So while you may not believe him, you don't have to call Bull**** every single time someone posts any bit of info that you don't agree with. This forum is here to help people learn, not to berate them. We could go back and forth about this all day long, but in the end, neither of us will be 100% right 100% of the time, especially with new technologies and engineering. What I'm trying to get at is, at the end of the day, we all need to be a little more considerate in what we say and how we treat others here. We're a Big Family after all.

 

Patrick

Edited January 29, 2009 by 4WDFrenzy

[4WDFrenzy]

To Loyale 2.7 Turbo: Thank you so much for scanning and posting that article and the pics. Those pics are amazing!

 

Patrick

[88RxTuner]

+2, maybe +10 on thanks for the articles.. I love old school scans.

 

Thanks for your support, 4WD...

 

I'm not out to prove I'm the best. There's plenty of other people out there running bigger and faster setups than what I have.

ALL I was trying to say was, and this is in direct query of the original post who was just looking to get 150hp out of his EA82t, that it's not particulary hard to get over 150hp from an EA engine... No special machine work, no special pistons or rods, etc...

I have built my RX on a tight, by tight I mean 35,000 a year with a wife and kid and house payment, budget... and I have taken all steps to build it as efficiently as possible.

I cant afford to drop a hundred bux for a 15 minute dyno session 4 times a year. When I DID have it dyno'd I made AWD HP at the wheels 131 hp. That was before tweaking the boost and timing. I'm not saying I'm the best. I'm not saying I'm the fastest, cause I'm not!!! BUT, I would like to say to *** SUBIEMECH*** that is IS possible to make over 150 hp on a budget... and there's nothing special that needs to take place for it to happen!! A little creative ingenuity, a little researching of what does what, etc. Isn't that what we're all here for, to help each other? Not to flame each other, or put one another down...for sake of someone's opinion, no less....

88RxTuner

[coxy]

As I posted elsewhere Neil Hinze in New Zealand the guy who designed the Sub4 EA81 4 port heads is close to releasing a new engine based on EA82 models with A 4 valve head conversion I believe Twin Cam belt drive a major Re Engineering upgrade of the good ol EA82.

It seems that talk on the Gyro forums is they are looking for a light weight engine and in this area the EJ series doesn't work that well in Gyroplanes due to the percentage of overall weight being too great.

Last time I looked it up Sub4 EA81 heads with manifolds were Aus $2600.00 plus shipping so it will be interesting to see what eventuates this time,there is a possibility he may only supply a complete built engine due to the nature of Aircraft and possible Legal ramifications,Still interesting none the less as it means like the EA81 if the Homebuilt market has an interest people will still develop and market parts for our older Subie Engines.

Russell's main claim to fame seems to be his reduction drives for converting Subaru's for Light aircraft use,this was how I tracked down talk about his new project the Ultimate EA82 weapon engine conversion 140hp NA as a starter

Edited January 29, 2009 by coxy

[The Scooby]

listen, again im not trying to start a fight, just happens that when i built my 86 turbo 3dr and put down the numbers i did everyone called BS, i posted a dyno graph and everyone shut up.

 

i would just like to see the numbers and what kind of usable power there is with, im not calling you a liar, but there are alot out there and i would love to see what numbers are at the wheels.

 

again im not trying to say you are lying, or me be a jerk, im just interested in numbers not estimations.

[joostvdw]

no offence to anyone, but please don't claim that by your calculations you are at that HP, that helps no one, for all you know you are only at 120HP.

 

until i see dyno numbers i call BS on people anymore.

 

with the mods i stated you should be around 130HP, not 160.

 

I do not know if this was meant for me, doesn't really matter, I would like to explain something.

 

First off, I was talking about CHP, secondly, I have an EDM engine (being in the netherlands and all) which has 136CHP @ 0,8 bar with a VF7 according to the brochure. This is with a CAT and small restrictive exhaust.

 

I have an open (no CAT) 2,5'' exhaust from the turbo back. I also did some minor adjustments and perfections. In my opinion the engine is in very VERY good condition and should in fully stock form reach its 136CHP.

 

So all this considered, but without hard evidence, I would say 150CHP is not a bad guess.

 

Small gains over stock can be made with just exhaust mods and an IC. For safety add an oil cooler. If you want more power, you need to fix the injection. Finally turbo and manifold upgrades.

 

In my opinion, if you want 150CHP, you will not need internal mods.

[The Scooby]

again, with no dyno sheet i will not believe you, sorry, thats just me.

 

with a full exhaust, intake, and upgraded TMIC the stock WRX's only make about 12 more WHP, so on a engine that is smaller, smaller turbo, and is less efficient i dont see 150CHP, sorry.

 

prove me wrong.

[88RxTuner]

Hmmm... 12 more WHP on a Rex.. that's about 18-20 more CHP on an engine that was already tuned to make 250CHP... The exhaust is not restricted, they have fuel mapping down pat, and it's a speed density system that does not re-calibrate fuel to free(er) flowing intake and exhaust...Not to mention, your example has not addressed fuel metering or ANY programming, for that matter. Yea, I'd believe about 12-15 more WHP on an unprogrammed ECM.

 

You're saying that taking an "inefficient" engine like the EA82T, opening the exhaust from 2 cats and 1-7/8" exhaust to 2.5" downpipe and NO restriction, even on the VF-7 (which I have already improved on my car) on an engine that meters fuel STRICTLY on incoming airflow, and therefore maintains an increase in fuel volume with the same increase in air flow up to the mechanical limits of the system.... This will not increase the power percentage at least as much as your "WRX" example?

My friend, I think you have just proven yourself wrong, based on your own theory... Hmm, 250 goes to 262, give or take... but 136 cant go to 150 without you steaming up like a pot of hot tea??

Your refusal of someone elses power numbers is understood, and nothing peeves me more than the guy who claims outrageous power increases from the most miniscule of modifications. BUT, we are not here claiming to have had "ONE HUNDRED HORSEPOWER INCREASE!!!" by changing the damned air filter, or some other ridiculosity such as that. We are here as your peers, as people who have actually been there and done that... as people with some experience in the field, as I'm sure you have. You dont strike me as inexperienced or under-educated.

It may be wise of you to listen and learn instead of trying to prove yourself to be the know-it-all wise-rump roast that you apparently think you are.

We are not debating how much power anyone has, we are not debating whose care is "better" or "faster" or anything of the like...

We are simply here to inform the person who ASKED the question that it is not particularly difficult or expensive to achieve his goal of 150hp out of this engine...

88RxTuner

P.S. A 250hp Rex with free-flowing intake, 3" catless downpipe and open exhaust, STI TMIC, Fuel mods, PLUS an ECM tweak and tune will make 60+ whp more than it's stock counterpart... Been there, Done that, and I'm sure plenty of Rex guys will be glad to inform you that 325-350CHP is not close to hard to get out of the EJ20, with the proper ECM tuning...

Edited January 31, 2009 by 88RxTuner

[discopotato03]

Short of time right now but I am slowly developing in Australia an 85/56 RX Turbo sedan and the build looks like this .

 

Newly rebuilt engine is from an 87 Aust spec Vortex XT4 so an original spider turbo unit - rare here .

Unknown previous owner of this engine kindly machined the engine cases to raise the static CR to around 8.6:1 .

This is a safe mod to do to an EA82T because in std form the valves are nowhere the pistons being a "non interference engine" . It gets the CR up for little cost so you retain the beefier turbo pistons - just don't break cam belts ! Also need to mod the cam pulleys to get the cam timing back to std .

My piston crowns and exhaust valves were ceramic coated as well .

 

For cams the best I could find were the Vortex turbo ones which I think are 256's .

 

My heads have been ported - mainly on the exhaust side as they look very restrictive in std form .

 

As I said I'm using a cleaned up spider inlet manifold but to get around its TB BS I got an aluminium plate welded on the the back of the plenum chamber so we can fit an early switch type TB and TPS (mine is a 3 plug ECU car) .

 

I bought a Liberty RS WAIC but that goes on later .

 

My car is still running its original 297000 Km old engine but its being used as a running template to get everything else right .

 

Its just had 2.25" turtbo back exhaust fitted (inc a 3" cat) and its proving to be quite good though the down pipe may be increased in size to 2.5" when a better turbo is fitted .

 

I'd like to use a TD04 "HL" style turbo because I reckon the TD04L while being good is a tadc small turbine wise .

There is a rare TD04HL 15T/6 available on an early JDM auto Rex wagon but originals are proving very hard to find . You can bore an original TD04L's turbine housing out to suit and have the turbos cartridge rebuilt with the "HL" turbine if push comes to shove but an original (and rare) HL turbine housing would work a little better .

I searched around a got a near new 6cm HL turbine housing from a Volvo (straight outlet housing) and this being a better designed turbine housing and for the HL turbine should be a little better again - needs Volvo style up and down pipie flanges though .

 

I also have access to a Garrett GT2860 RS turbo but I think an EA82T would need FAR better headers than std to make that turbo work properly .

 

Have still to make a final decision on what to make header wise but anything should work better than the std dunny S bend .

 

Out of time more later .

 

Cheers Coxy and all , Adrian in Australia .

[88RxTuner]

Disco.....

 

"I think an EA82T would need FAR better headers than std to make that turbo work properly . "

 

That's why I manufactured my own... and as simplistic as my exhaust may be, I only have about 300rpm difference in spool time between using the TD04 (USDM from a WRX) and using the VF7 that came factory w/ the EA82Turbo (again, USDM...) I cant imagine that would be far behind with the Garrett GT2860..maybe a tad bit slower, but I wouldnt suspect more than about 500RPM loss. Spool time and efficiency are the direct result of proper engineering of the exhaust system, just about anything is possible with enough thinking about it done before the "jumping into the fire" stage...We built a WRX and went from the TD04 to a Garrett GT-35 and only lost 800RPM spool time..

 

I think that anyone out there with the time and skills necessary to weld and fabricate their own exhaust can achieve similar results. For those who cant, I'm Positive that the local exhaust/muffler/emissions station can provide adequate service for the right price...not to mention the number of qualified builders on these forums!!

 

I'm still running my original engine, at 234,000 miles (376,000Kilometers for you metric folks)with 115-120psi compression across the board (790-825kPa) Did head gaskets at 190,000, Got rid of the "Y" pipe ( T-pipe for those who know it...) made my own header/up-pipe, swapped the TD04 in there, and here I sit... at about 12 psi... no worse for wear than the next guy who tweaks his engine.

 

ALL of this is do-able for the average guy looking to make his car faster/better/etc... for a less than astronomical price tag, to boot.