coxy Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Seems everyone has issues at some time with EA82 hydrauilic Lifters. Seafoam I assume is similar to the Subaru carbon Cleaner pressure pack. The main cause of noisy lifters With EA82 engines is actually the oil becoming aerated at the oil pump,Oil full of air bubbles means noisy lifters after startup that can last for quite a few miles of driving. This happens because air gets into the pump via the front crank seal,you replace the front crank seal possibly also the front crank pulley as well to fix this problem. For those who don't wish to replace the crank pulley any good bearing supplier can order or supply what is known as a "Speedy Sleeve". A speedy sleeve is a very thin stainless steel sleeve designed to fit over the section where the seal runs on the crank pulley,over time a wear lip occurs at the contact point of the seal,in some cases a new seal can be fitted in a slightly different position to avoid this wear area. You can also increase the spring tension of the new seal to counteract wear like this as well,all springs used in seals have a join where one end is wound in a taper and screwed into the plain end to give a circular tension spring. Remove the spring from the seal looking carefully you will see where the join is holding both sides of the join twist to undo the join. You can usually cut 3mm fron the NON TAPERED end of the spring,then simply twist back together and carefully refit for a adjusted seal that makes allowance for wear on the mating surface. Yes this can be used in other areas like hub bearings as well just don't go too tight on the tension by cutting off too much and practice on an old seal first to be safe Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 i don't think this has anything to do with crank seal. noisy lifters are usually caused by two things, which we have definitive quantifiable proof of: The oil pump gasket gets sucked into one of the oil supply ports, deforming the oil pump gasket. This allows air into the oil supply which the HLA's don't like. I've posted pictures of these deformed gaskets before. People replace them and have the same thing happen shortly after installing a new one. My only guess to that is that the oil pump needs replaced. A member of the subaruxt.com forum made a small metal sleeve to insert into those small oil pump ports to prevent the gasket from getting sucked in. HLA's can also by noisy individually. They can be dirty, frequent oil changes are your friends on EA82's/ER27's. Sometimes oil changes, sea foam, or other additives help. They can also seize bad enough that nothing short of replacing will fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I've rebuilt every lifter, replaced the oil pump and seals. Ran seafoam, Marvel's Mystery oil, ATF, every grade of oil, many different brands of oil, and every oil filter I could find....still have the tick. I'm going to replace the block and tear into the old one and see if I can find an occlusion somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Johnson;791287']I've rebuilt every lifter' date=' replaced the oil pump and seals. Ran seafoam, Marvel's Mystery oil, ATF, every grade of oil, many different brands of oil, and every oil filter I could find....still have the tick. I'm going to replace the block and tear into the old one and see if I can find an occlusion somewhere.[/quote'] Have you tried replacing the oil pressure relfief springs in the pump body, and one in ech cam carrier? espescially the ones in the cam carrier. some people just stretch them, I choose to replace them. either way if you have one side that has several lifters ticking this can solve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 oh yeah and these are easily accessible just by removing the valve cover gaskets, so they're not too bad to replace. not much room to work with, but not a nightmare either. i think it's just one 14mm banjo bolt and another bolt on the other side to pull it off then pick the spring out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 You do not seem to realize it is air being sucked into the oil pump that makes the lifters noisy in this case it gets in via a front seal not sealing fully any more It is not the only thing that causes noisy lifters. Thirty five years as a mechanic and engine machinist does give me some insight into these things,so do not dismiss what I say out of hand. This will not be the case in all instances but my experience is it is in many cases and is a far cheaper and quicker solution to look at first. Just dismissing someones efforts to help others out of hand does not gain you any brownie points. My experience and Technical training means I will not post some of the dubious things that I have seen posted on Internet forums,That Either plain do not work or are downright dangerous. Unlike some I do not pretend to be an expert on all things but I am an expert on my profession,My last example was a Yamaha Raptor turbo 804 you will find it won "King of the Hill" amongst other classes at Glamis Imperial Dunes this January's four stroke association Quad races Look up TRE/Explosive racing results January 2009 races ,I do know how to build a sucessful engine, fastest single cylinder in the world if you doubt my expertise and over 600.00km and counting in subaru's as well as having run and prepared a number as Rally cars at up to International competition level. So I am not just some dumb 15 YO kid posting on the Net. Over 30 years preparation work with Cars Bikes and Boats at all levels of the sports,MX -Road racing-Rally-Drag-Circuit-Unlinited class Hydro's-ISDT and Speedway what expertise do you bring to the discussion.Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Please note from my previous post I have no intention of being arrogant but I see unlike some professionals my experience being of greater value to others if i pass it om,Keeping knowledge to myself i see as pointless,if by passing on knowledge I can help someone out this I see as being a worthwhile enterprise. We all bring differing experiences to a discussion and I would not dismiss anything out of hand,but If someone proposes something I know to be Dangerous or ineffective at solving a problem I will point it out to save others grief. As I pointed out I do have wide ranging experience comensurate with many years earning a living on the tools,if some of this knowledge can be of benefit to others they are most welcome to it,not all people will pass it on as some see giving away trade knowledge as a threat to their livelihood. In many cases owning a vehicle can give you an insight not even a tradesman can have on a particular model,but I have owned MY models MV models Rallied and prepared RX and WRX Legacy and Liberty amongst others in the Subaru range,and rarely for Mechanics have also done all the engine machining on a wide range of Engines as well as Fabrication of suspension chassis and Approved competition Rollcages therefore I have some worthwhile knowledge . For instance lifters are designed to operate within a certain preload range and this can be altered by Cylinder heads and valves being machined,therefore on some Engines Valve train geometry must be returned to standard with longer valve stems,shimming of valve spring seats,shiming or machining of rocker arm posts and pivots all this over and above just the basics of wear,there are many factors involved this is why I pointed out the first reply dismissing out of hand what I said was pointless and short sighted. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 steve, no offense meant. i..and others here on this forum have pulled apart hundreds of these exact motors. i'm a little confused because the oil gets pressurized behing the crank seal to lubricate. then it drains down into the oil pan....unless i'm missing something it's impossible for air to get introduced here??? WAIT - are you talking about EJ engines...with the crank seal as part of the oil pump? if so - then this is the wrong forum and that's the problem. on older subaru's the crank seal is separate and not part of the oil pump. either way, i think the crank seal is probably one of the least likely causes of this, at least for older generation engines. i've just stated facts, i haven't questioned your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88RxTuner Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) It has been my experience, not to 'piss on your parade' or any such measure, that neither the crank seal nor the relief spring has a significant measure to do with the noisy lifter problem. It has been my experience, and NOTHING more than my OWN experience, that one of two things is the problem.. Either the lifters, and for that matter the entire engine, have been subject to such mistreatment that there is an accumulation of sludge in the oil passageways of the lifter, or the little "Mickey Mouse" shaped o-ring behind the oil pump is the fault of this particular problem. I have no solution to the mistreated engine problem, aside from draining the oil, replacing it with 4.5 quarts of transmission fluid and running it for around a half hour at idle... this should sufficiently break down any sludge particles that may be causing the oil system to bind... this treatment may need to be repeated at intervals, DO NOT run the engine under load (i.e. driving down the road) with transmission fluid in the crankcase.... My solution to the oil pump o-ring problem is to access and disassemble the oil pump, whereabouts you shall find the ' mickey mouse' o-ring and upon reassembly, I take the extra measure of 'gluing' the o-ring to the engine case and to the oil pump housing by means of a Toyota product... FIPG.... Form In Place Gasket material. Comes in 2 varieties, black for oil pans, pumps, etc, and Red for transmission pans, final drives, transfer cases,etc. It's the black one you want for engine work. Go to your Toyota dealer, ask yer parts fellow for "F. I. P. G. sealant", and he shall hand you a tube that resembles in all ways a container of R.T.V. Silicone, except it be black and white... and states clearly on it F.I.P.G...... This be the stuff you glue mister Mickey Mouse shaped o-ring onto the oil pump housing and also a thin film on the engine casing, and then assemble... I should think this will solve your lifter noise.. If not, it's a matter of mechanical failure, such as clogged passageways, mis-aligned oil galleys, or something of the like... Steve has a good and valid argument about cyl head dimensions and lifter pre-load perhaps contributing to the problem, which shows a well-thought comprehension of the mechanical dynamics of the HLA. However, barring significant alterations to the engine, i.e. decked heads, altered valvetrain, or plain ole worn out parts, etc. I should suspect that in your general case the oil pump o-ring or some mechanical issue as stated above would be the most likely culprit. Kicks to you, Steve, for proving your point and standing by it... 88RxTuner Edited January 29, 2009 by 88RxTuner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88RxTuner Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) And also, on the EJ series engines, it's not a matter of the seal coming loose either.. On the back of the oil pump, there is a steel plate held in place with 5 Phillips taper-head screws... Those screws have the tendancy to come loose and allow the steel plate to separate ever so slightly from the oil pump, allowing both air to enter on the suction side and pressurized oil to escape on the pressure side... this generally leaves a trail of oil down the front of the engine, under the timing cover, sometimes mistaken as the front of the oil pan leaking... which by the way rarely if ever happens. (the oil pan leak, that is...The oil pump failure is quite common.) 88RxTuner Edited January 29, 2009 by 88RxTuner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scooby Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ive always just had good luck using only OEM subaru parts, that and a engine flush before i do the nose job. also another thing i noticed is that i when my engine was getting low on oil they would start to tick, and progressivly get louder as the engine would burn more, top it off and be good to go. oh did i say burn the oil, i mean leak it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 my lifter noise comes and goes on it's own schedule regardless of anything I do, it can be absent for days, weeks and months then come and stay long enough for me to think it's permanent - then disappear again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulpicard Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Interesting comments - especially the last one by txacura. I did my EA-82 TBI oil pump last fall - replaced the M.M. o-ring (which was deformed and not seated properly) as well as some other mtce. The lash adjustor ticking is now more intermittent than it was, and only during warm-up - seems to go away for good once up to operating temps. But it's still annoying. Should I be concerned enough to address the symptoms, or not? (I do my own work, except for machine-shop stuff, so labour costs aren't a factor) I'm thinking of either running some cleaning agent (Seafoam) or replacing adjusters ($$$) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron 1 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 thanx for the tip coxy ill give it a try hell why not but i think my problem is she has 320,000 miles on her i found 90w gear oil works to nuthin taps or even thinks of tapping but it runs hot and has like three hp but its gutless anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron 1 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 oh did i mention it didnt have oil psr at idle untill i put 2q 90w gear oil in it and 2.5q 10w30 thats whats been working for me and if it blowes up ohwell 320,000 miles isnt bad for a subaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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