BRAT behaving badly, please help!!

[Ziester]

Hey all! This is my first post and I am a novice in the world of Bratting, but I need some help getting the old girl running and am hoping someone can help me diagnose the problem. I've had it for a while and up until a few months ago it ran really well. A little back story: It's a 1985 and I bought it from it's original owner. It has 80K miles, but of that only about 30K were actually driven (they pulled it behind an RV), and has had no major repair work done. I've kept her serviced regularly and she's mostly just driven to work and back.

 

Anyway, a couple of months ago I noticed some chugging when I would accelerate. The car would start to speed up, then would chug and sputter a little bit, then continue on like nothing was wrong. It started shortly after having filled up my tank and didn't appear to be causing problems elsewhere, so I attributed the problems to bad gasoline. I spoke with a mechanic who instructed me to just take it easy on the car until the majority of the gas was used, then fill it up at a different station. I followed his advice and she ran fine for a few days, but then started acting up again. He then said that there might have been just enough bad gas left in the car when I filled up to keep causing problems, and suggested that I use a fuel detergent. He told me to put the detergent in, fill the tank back up, and then drive the car carefully. He said that I could expect to see it clear up in a half to three quarters of a tank. I followed his advice again and the car ran smoothly for a few days, but then the chugging and sputtering started again.

 

This time, when I went to a different mechanic, he told me to track when and where the problems were happening, then get back with him. I drove for about a week and noticed that I was having disruptions always in the morning time, while the car was between the first and second notch on the temperature gauge. His diagnosis was that there was water in the tank that was condensing overnight, causing problems when I tried to drive it the next morning. He suggested a different kind of fuel detergent, which I used, and said that I should be okay.

 

Guess what? It didn't stop and in fact, it got worse. Instead of just chugging a little and then continuing to run, the car would chug, sputter, and lose acceleration. The engine would stay running and I was able to rev the engine as it was slowing down, but the car wasn't engaging back into the acceleration. Then the car would die when I applied my breaks to coast into a parking lot. I would have to allow the car to idle for a while, rev the engine a few times, then start up and continue on.

 

I stopped driving the car on a regular basis and it seemed to perform okay (not great, like it used to) with only minor sputtering when I let the car warm up to the half way point on my temperature gauge. Then, about two weeks later while I was driving, the car sputtered, died, then wouldn't farther than fifty feet or so when I started it up again. It was impossible to drive, so I called a third mechanic to come out and help me get it home. He drove it and once he parked, he said that a) he could smell a lot of fuel and that it only seemed to have problems when we accelerated. He thought it might have problems with the fuel line, but when he checked it it was fine. He then thought it might be the carburetor causing the engine to flood and die. He said that when the car heats up and the carburetor starts to open, the valves weren't opening properly, so it was getting too much fuel and not enough air. He took the carburetor off and cleaned it out with some spray stuff in a can, then put it back on and let it run as it heated up to see if it would open properly. It did, so he took it for a test drive and didn't have any problems. He said that he thought it was just dirty and the valves weren't opening properly, and that it should be fine.

 

I'm not sure if you catch a theme here, but it wasn't fine.

 

The car still sputtered, choked, died. On and on. So he took another look and said that the coil that opens the valve (and pardon me of those aren't the right words - I'm still learning) might be broken, so he bought a new part to put there. We went in to replace it (and I watched because I wanted to learn, so I'm repeating this from first hand), but when we took it off it looked fine. No dents or breaks or bends or anything. He moved it around and it moved. He was able to move the little metal valve by its prong that connects to the coil, and he also tested to see if the coil was getting power, which it was. Well, let me clarify. The metal head on the wire that connects to the coil fell off, so we replaced it and the coil got power.

 

We though maybe that was the problem, so I test drove it again. And ... it was perfect! Ran just like the little Brat I bought. BUT (you knew there had to be a “but”), the next time I tried to do it, it went back to its old sputtering, choking ways.

 

I'm seriously about to pull my hair out. I've been to three separate mechanics, but no one seems to know enough about Brats to help me. Can any of you seasoned Brat owners offer me some guidance? Thanks!!

[ferox]

So I did not see anywhere in your post that the mechanics mentioned the fuel filter or vapor separator. Did they? Or has the filter been changed recently?

 

If the fuel filter location on a Brat is the same as a wagon it is under the car behind the rear driver's side wheel. There is a metal plate with three(?) nuts holding it to the car with the fuel filter and fuel pump attached to the top-side. The vapor separator is in the engine compartment. Someone will correct me if I am wrong. I would suggest buying a manual. Even a Haynes manual will give you lots of important information that is easily understood by a novice.

 

Also, you may get more responses to a more concise description of your problem, although thoroughness is also appreciated.

[edrach]

Even though your Brat is low mileage, I'm willing to bet that the fuel filter is clogged. It's under the car in the rear right next to the fuel pump. Also, you have a fuel separator in the engine compartment (looks like a fuel filter except it has 3 ports instead of two). I'd guess that neither have ever been changed.

 

Considering the cold weather, I'd also suggest a bottle of dry gas added with the next tankful of gasoline.

 

Do these two things (three things?) and you should be okay. If not, repost and there'll be more suggestions.

[edrach]

ferox had the right idea and expressed it better than I.

 

Haynes manual would be okay, but if you can find it try to get a copy of How to Keep your Subaru Alive (Volume 2). A much better beginner's manual. Find it on ebay or Amazon; it was $22 when new and you can find it for $10 to $30 if you look. Volume 1 only goes to 1984 but there's very little difference between the '84 and '85 Brats.

[Frank B]

It does sound fuel related. Replace your fuel filters first. Then if it persists I would say a proper carb rebuild may be in order. Even though the one mechanic sprayed it out, it may have to be disassembled and properly cleaned(jets removed, etc) . It could also be gunk built up in the gas tank since it didn't have regular use. Water is heavier then gas and sits on the bottom of the tank, rusting the tank and holding the dirt and dust from the fuel. The subaru gas tank draws from the bottom so we don't have to worry about it too much, but the bottom isn't flat, it has a hump in it to clear the rear differential. So it may be laying in one of those low spots then sloshing around a bit. When you fill up it will stir it up, then over time fit will settle, like overnight. You start it up the next day, drive around a corner or bumpy roads then it stirs up again. it may come down to dropping the gas tank to clean it out. You may be able to dump two cans of Sea Foam or another strong cleaner into it and run it out.

And start staying away from "cheap" gas, like no-name discount brands. Stick with BP, Hess , Chevron, Exxon, etc. The additives or the amount of the additives are better. You need good detergents right now, not saving 30 cents a tankor less for cheaper gas. Oh, and every time you fill up, actually fill it up, the space above the fuel is where the condensation forms, less space, less water.

 

After you get that in order, give it a proper tune up, plugs, wires and such.

 

Here's some info to get you started.

http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1162301/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c15280067039

 

http://www.autozone.com/UseCase,S001/UserAction,viewSimpleDiagInfo/Parameters,info/getInTheZone.htm

[Ziester]

Wow, thanks for all the help! This seems like a great place to start.

[Greenley]

So i take it that your Brat runs fine for a while and then acts up out of nowhere? Is the chugging felt throughout the truck? Bucking?

Does it depend on how much "go pedal" you give it?

 

Sorry for answering a question with a question(s), but i'm in the process

of solving a very similar problem. Just how similar is what i want to know

 

That way when i fix it, i can help you & vice versa, ya dig

[edrach]

When you finally get around to a tune-up, use only NGK sparkplugs. For some reason they just perform better and last longer than other brands.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Welcome Aboard!

 

Let me Tell you that your Story is Exactly the Same that Happened to my EA82 Wagon, Anything done to Try to fix it, just let it Run Smooth for a While... and then the Problem started Again and Again and Again...

 

But I Have an Idea: I am Almost Sure that your Brat have Problems with the Carburetor... Those Hitachi (Craptachi) Carbs aren`t easy to Rebuild with a Kit... I Tried with an Aftermarket Kit, and then I Took my Craptachi to the Dealer with an Original Subaru Rebuild Kit and it only Lasted fine for about Three Days...

 

The Solution I Found is Also a Great Improvement for Those EA Subaru Engines: Swap the Craptachi Carb, for a Weber Carb.

 

The Weber Carburetor, 32/36 is -I Believe- The Greatest Thing that Could Happens to a Subaru EA Carbureted engine, Let me Explain: Webers are Bigger and their Secondary Stage is Mechanically Powered so you Control the Total Engine Power and Acceleration with the Gas Pedal, (not like the Vacuum Activated secondary as the Hitachi`s are) Webers Also are very Simple, even to Adjust them, They Give more Low end Torque too, and depending on your Way of Driving, can use the Same Gasoline for the Same Kilometers, or even Better.

 

If you have a more Aggresive Driving Behaviour, You`ll Notice that Webers makes the Engine to Sound a Loud "Roar" When they`re with Gas Pedal Fully Down... Really Great Sound!

 

You can Find some great Threads about the Weber Swap Here... I Suggest you to Read. I Wrote one that could be found at my "Public Profile" Page`s List, just Click on my Avatar.

 

So I Suggest you that if even with New Fuel Filters, Sparks, etc the Problem Persist: Go Weber! ... is Not only a Solution, it is a Great improvement. (The only thing you Might be Careful is the Pollution Laws at your Area)

 

I Hope this can Help you.

 

Best Regards.

 

...they pulled it behind an RV...

 

Why did that the Previous Owner?

[Greenley]

While i agree with you Sir Loyale2.7, i went Weber and it didn't solve the problem at hand. I still have a few other things to go over,

perhaps my fuel pump isn't delivering enough fuel,

or my cat may be clogged, i'll find out eventually.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

What issues do you Have with your Subie? ... (I Don`t want to Hijack the Thread and I`m not trying to be some sort of "Know it All" kind of person, but I Always Try to do my Best Helping with Ideas that Usually comes from my Experience) Maybe I can give you some Ideas...

 

The Clogged Cat gave me Overheating and Weak Engine Problems, back in the Early 1990`s ... the more Clogged one was the Hidden cat Filter inside the "Y" Pipe... I Removed that, plus the Cathalytic and the Muffler, now my Subie has an Empty Box as Muffler, filled with industrial Fiberglass inside (Heat & Sound isolator) to prevent the Ugly "Fart Can" Sound. ... ... Since That, the Subie Runs Smooth, Cool and with more Powerful Feelin`

[ferox]

It could also be gunk built up in the gas tank since it didn't have regular use. Water is heavier then gas and sits on the bottom of the tank, rusting the tank and holding the dirt and dust from the fuel.

 

Oh, and every time you fill up, actually fill it up, the space above the fuel is where the condensation forms, less space, less water.

 

 

This is actually really important. My wife used to just get $10-$20 of gas at a time in her '84 wagon which left a lot of inner tank surface area exposed to rust. She didn't have water in the gas problems, but the rust particles would pack the fuel filter almost completely full. We...I...haven't had to change the fuel filter since she started filling the tank each time, but ultimately I think I will probably have to drop the tank this spring, acid wash it, and coat it.

[Ziester]

 

The Solution I Found is Also a Great Improvement for Those EA Subaru Engines: Swap the Craptachi Carb, for a Weber Carb.

 

The Weber Carburetor, 32/36 is -I Believe- The Greatest Thing that Could Happens to a Subaru EA Carbureted engine.[/Quote]

 

The previous owner beat you to the punch and swapped out the original Carb for the Weber Downdraft 32-36 about a week before I purchased it.

Why did that the Previous Owner?

 

A lot of people do that once they retire. They were an older couple, decided to spend a few years on the road traveling, but wanted a little bit of flexibility on exploring the area without being in the RV.

 

To everyone else, thanks again for the advice! I just got new filters today and will be installing them tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

[edrach]

So how's running with new filters?

[bratman2]

If your Brat is the same as my 87 Brat you should have a drain plug in the bottom of the gas tank. You could wait until it is low on fuel and drain it out to find out if you have rust or water in your tank. Fuel filters very well could solve your problem. While warming up it keeps the fuel bowel full. Get driving and it can't keep up with the demand due to restricted flow.

[moosens]

All good advice here but also do yourself a favor and check the plastic silencer and the reeds on the air suction system. The reeds wear out and allow much more heat into the plastic which results in melting and bits of plastic going up into the carb. They sometimes solidify in the carb and can actually cause similar problems.

[edrach]

All good advice here but also do yourself a favor and check the plastic silencer and the reeds on the air suction system. The reeds wear out and allow much more heat into the plastic which results in melting and bits of plastic going up into the carb. They sometimes solidify in the carb and can actually cause similar problems.

Good advice from moosens, but do the filters first since it's the easiest.

 

Don't be surprised if the plastic silencers are not present. When I installed a weber on our Brat, I blocked off the air suction valve since it was no longer needed. Hard to tell if the original owner did that also.