JonOfScio Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) 2/13/09 Car is an '87 GL Hatch, FWD. EA71 wide case (1.6L EA81) with 2bbl hitachi and feedback. ~87,000 mi on the odometer, stock everything minus a jerry rigged DGAV weber swap. Please note: It is my opinion that if someone is going to do a weber swap, that they use a DGV casing instead of a DFV casing. I can't stress enough that it is WORTH the money to just purchase a damn redline kit. Or source a real weber. Holley had waaaaay too many variations on the weber "type" carburetor on domestic US vehicles. Just purchased all new tools to replace when I had them stolen from out of my legacy a couple years ago. Who doesn't like new tools? Dan (from Dan's Independant Subaru repair, here in Corvallis) and I will be undertaking an SPFI swap from an '89. Currently have all the swap parts minus a fuel pump. What I aim to do in this process is take pictures step-by-step (or almost) to help make a more complete conversion writeup. Between GD's writeup and the others out there, this should do well. When it is all said and done, I hope to show that this process is NOT that difficult. First off, going to pressure test my cylinders this morning, and we should actually get started on the swap THIS WEEKEND. There is no timeline deadline, but I'm a whiz at electrical work, and the ECU doesn't scare me one bit. I'm actually very glad that I found Dan under Andrew's (Hondaslayer) recommendation. Very cool guy, just the sort of subaru nut we all can get along with. He's got a nice plot and quite a collection of parts. Which seems to reason, I currently have original A/F housing, original feedback 2bbl hitachi, and very shortly the manifold, that will be up for grabs if anyone should want them. I DID have solenoids in good working condition, but I seem to have misplaced them. Probably in the hatch in my Box-O-Parts. Edited February 14, 2009 by JonOfScio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 So the holley 5210 didnt work out for you either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) fitment issues. had to disable the choke in order to get the throttle cable bracket on, and was working with a limited budget, ect. It's just not convenient for an EA81 motor. This particular one had no air corrector jets, just main and idle jets. Purchased wire looms (red and blue), electrical supplies and tools, got everything needed minus fuel pump. Can't get a hold of Dan today, he's probably busy with other clients or family matters. Off to clean out my car and organize my new tools, clean up and polish SPFI intake plenum. Maybe give GD a ring and see if he has a pump, this could save some time. Plus I still owe him $20 from a couple years ago! damn! Edited February 13, 2009 by JonOfScio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My setup fit and functioned great. Choke worked like a dream. It was the throttle plate wear/shaft rebush that is making it impossible to set the idle. Infact the car runs terrific it just wont idle less than 1100 rpm. If you are still interested in getting it working I even had the air cleaner worked out nicely. Ive got several of these. A couple feedback units and non. Anyways I really wanted FI couldnt find all the parts around here. I ended up finding just about all I need, tho. Good Luck! My opinion to anyone in our situation. DONT waiste one second or one cent on the holley 52xx - 65xx carbs unless you already have them and know they are in good working order, and even then they really are a gamble. Dont buy them off E-Bay! There were so many different applications, linkages and styles it is impossible to know what you really are getting. Save your time and money for the SPFI swap or buy the weber kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 For those of you that know either Jon or myself, this car my parent's picked up a few years ago from the second owner, both owners were little old ladies that drove this car maybe once a week, and yes, it has that low of mileage on it. Sat around in my parent's driveway since my youngest sister was too lazy to get her permit/license so she could drive it. Thus, Jon picked it up from my parent's for what they paid for it and lemme tell you, it was a hell of a steal. Oh the pump, you can use any EA82 FI pump but you'll have to do some line replacing for the flex lines to ones that'll handle the pressure IIRC. Go Jon go! Soon you can drive up here to see me;) I need to get back into gear on my EJ swap though:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceMan Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 2/13/09 Car is an '87 GL Hatch, FWD. EA71 wide case (1.6L EA81) with 2bbl hitachi and feedback. ~87,000 mi on the odometer, stock everything minus a jerry rigged DGAV weber swap. Please note: It is my opinion that if someone is going to do a weber swap, that they use a DEV casing instead of a DAV casing. I can't stress enough that it is WORTH the money to just purchase a damn redline kit. Just purchased all new tools to replace when I had them stolen from out of my legacy a couple years ago. Who doesn't like new tools? Dan (from Dan's Independant Subaru repair, here in Corvallis) and I will be undertaking an SPFI swap from an '89. Currently have all the swap parts minus a fuel pump. What I aim to do in this process is take pictures step-by-step (or almost) to help make a more complete conversion writeup. Between GD's writeup and the others out there, this should do well. When it is all said and done, I hope to show that this process is NOT that difficult. First off, going to pressure test my cylinders this morning, and we should actually get started on the swap THIS WEEKEND. There is no timeline deadline, but I'm a whiz at electrical work, and the ECU doesn't scare me one bit. I'm actually very glad that I found Dan under Andrew's (Hondaslayer) recommendation. Very cool guy, just the sort of subaru nut we all can get along with. He's got a nice plot and quite a collection of parts. Which seems to reason, I currently have original A/F housing, original feedback 2bbl hitachi, and very shortly the manifold, that will be up for grabs if anyone should want them. I DID have solenoids in good working condition, but I seem to have misplaced them. Probably in the hatch in my Box-O-Parts. Hey good luck on your spfi conversion. Fuel injection is so much nicer in many ways. I wanted to ask if you are putting in an ea81 to do the conversion onto, or the whole ea82 engine with spfi?? I am worried that you havent measured the manifold coming off of your ea71 fat case yet... -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 well... sorry to discontent, but opportunity knocked and I bit. Not doing the SPFI swap. I was a bit leary of whether or not I would have enough finances for all the nitty gritty parts and sourcing out a fuel pump, when I managed to find a guy who had a REAL italian made weber 32/36 DGAV (with electric choke conversion) I offered him $80 and ran like I stole it. and it has the right air corrector jets in it, so out come the fuel and idle jets from the holley. Which, weirdly enough does not have air corrector jets. Just idle and fuel jets. Tomorrow - remove unnecessary altitude solenoids, remove+strip lines from and clean intake manifold. New intake gaskets, carb gaskets, and cleanup/rebuild the weber. going to clean the engine bay, hide unnecessary wires and re-dress the wiring looms with the new blue and red looms I got. New PCV parts and hoses, rerouted too. It should be purty!!! (How I originally wanted it done on the '88 Hatch) Since I have all the tools to do it right and THEM SOME, even you'd be proud russ! All my tools in the back are neatly organized... OCD isn't for quitters! I also got a butane torch good to 2500 F (or so it says), and some brazing rods good for bonding most metals. This thread will get removed tomorrow afternoon when I get ready to post pics of the engine bay cleanup/carb rebuild/carb swap. Also, might have pics of soldering tutorial (the right way!) With pics of a holley (weber DFV style) and a genuine weber DGV side by side, should have some value to help peoples distinguish. PS: Should I paint the intake red, blue, or polish it? ~Jon DAN: Looks like I can help you clean your shop sunday or monday if you want some help. I've got enough simple green and heavy duty degreaser to get the job done. I almost bought cat litter today too. If I have enough time on my hands, since I have a hold of your SPFI intake, I may clean it up for you. (Just because I can) since it's an easy tear down. ANDREW: If you get bored and want to come BS or whatever, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 ...I managed to find a guy who had a REAL italian made weber 32/36 DGAV ... Italian Made! ... What Year? ... Where are Usually Made the Other Weber Carbs? Mine is Made in Spain... Don`t know if there are some made in Other Places Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Mike: '85 - '89 "EA71" motors that came in the hatches and brats are strange in that they are essentially an EA81 block and heads with some differences, but do swap onto and can interchange with EA81 block/heads. The intake manifold on up (intake, carb, solenoids, sensors, ECU) are identical to EA81 feedback system, and so thus an SPFI swap is just as easy. Mainly differences include: camshaft profile, crankshaft, rods are longer, pistons, valve size, heads combustion chamber smaller cc's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 It's from an older VW, something like 20 years back they switched to making them in spain. Pics tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 sweet dude, I can't wait to see what you do to this beast. You gonna make it 4wd eventually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) if I could find a 4wd donor car (passed up a 4wd EA81 hatch, same color for $400 in december) then yeah. By the time I would have finances for that, I could allow for the cost of a new clutch kit. or, god willing, if I could somehow find a FT4WD tranny with dif lock, I'd most certainly do it. But as time goes on, parts are harder to get you know. FWIW: I'd do an EJ motor and drivetrain/suspension swap if I was loaded on cash. But I'm not. Other possibility: I *could* fab up a turbo box for the carb, sealing it all in. These carbs do actually respond well to that setup. Also, I had planned the possibility of a down-draft 6v72, but that would just be silly. If I could possibly get two EA81 manifolds or two EA82 carb manifolds from someone, I'm willing to do the manpower to make a double weber carbed manifold. but... finding two webers? ack. Like I said, I'd be fabbing up a storm and jobless if I was rich! Edited February 14, 2009 by JonOfScio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 okay moderator(s), you can delete this thread. SPFI swap not happening, new thread will be made later for engine cleanup + weber shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 ...If I could possibly get two EA81 manifolds or two EA82 carb manifolds from someone, I'm willing to do the manpower to make a double weber carbed manifold. ... Some EA81`s Came Stock with Double Carb Setup, so if you really want to have a Twin Webers Setup, I Suggest you to Search for one of those Twin Carb intake Manyfolds. That will Sound Amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 from about 8:30 to 6:30 I was working on it. I first disassembled the carburetor, sprayed it down with carb cleaner, let it soak for two hours in cleaner while I pulled the intake manifold and replaced PCV valve and thermostat. I took off all emissions lines off the bottom of the manifold and removed all unnecessary brackets from the motor and manifold. Then I pulled the holley off the manifold, and disassembled it. Pulled the jets and threw them in the cleaned weber, along with the throttle plates. NOW - The throttle shaft on the italian weber was straight and fine, but had been rounded off for where the nut goes to hold on the throttle cable. I worked for some time to see what I could do, but to no avail. Looks like I have to get a die to re-thread it. The secondary seemed to be missing a spring to pull it back to where it should be in relation to the movement of the throttle bracket, so I added a spring and to make sure it would stick, I soldered it into an unused area of the carburetor... you have to see it to understand. Camera is in the car! I should show what this pcv valve looks like I pulled out. When removing the pcv hose from the valve the hose broke just above the valve. I could see that for about an inch from the top of the valve, hard flaky layers of crap had been settled for some time. There was no question on if it was working. lol. it was definately closed. I ran out of daylight. Have to get a die and rethread the end of the throttle shaft, hook up the front carb warmer coolant line, fit the air filter, and finish the passenger side pcv setup. It runs. Ran out of daylight to finish tuning, and without the throttle cable attached, it was difficult to get it running lol. It did take a while before the fuel was reaching the manifold though. I think ALOT evap'd out of the lines while I was working or something. Maybe my f/p is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Some EA81`s Came Stock with Double Carb Setup, so if you really want to have a Twin Webers Setup, I Suggest you to Search for one of those Twin Carb intake Manyfolds. That will Sound Amazing! yes, but, they are hard to find from around a U.S standpoint. Also, having two webers would mean most likely alot of time spent tuning and rejetting. At this point I'd be glad not to work on a carb for a while lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 yes, but, they are hard to find from around a U.S standpoint. Also, having two webers would mean most likely alot of time spent tuning and rejetting. At this point I'd be glad not to work on a carb for a while lol. yes, and the dual carb ea81 manifold has the carb mounts too close to use a stock weber adapter for each side.... you'd have to make your own adapters that would separate the carbs at least another inch, maybe 1.5". then try and fit the throttlle bar to the twin webers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceMan Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Mike: '85 - '89 "EA71" motors that came in the hatches and brats are strange in that they are essentially an EA81 block and heads with some differences, but do swap onto and can interchange with EA81 block/heads. The intake manifold on up (intake, carb, solenoids, sensors, ECU) are identical to EA81 feedback system, and so thus an SPFI swap is just as easy. Mainly differences include: camshaft profile, crankshaft, rods are longer, pistons, valve size, heads combustion chamber smaller cc's. Late model ea71s do have the feedback carb etc, exactly like the ea81s of the same era, and the manifolds do look identical. However, the ea71 late models are still just as narrow as the early ea71 models and the manifolds are about an inch shorter than the ea81s and ea82s. I have both examples sitting side by side at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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