kellyray Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) I just put a motor in my brat last night. I went to bust it off and couldnt get any spark. I dont know why. I think the coil went bad for some reason. 2 weeks ago it worked fine with the old motor so it leaves me kinda clueless. If i wasnt careful and the coil arced against the body or something when i pulled the old motor out would it screw up the coil? Anyone know how to test a coil?? Its a 1981 brat EA71. Thanks Kelly O. Edited February 17, 2009 by kellyray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indrid cold Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) possibly wires reversed between neg & pos on coil, ... Yellow to the Positive?... Also, check your Chiltons or (?) for values and do a resistance check on the coil... wired back to coil from ditsy correct? Just throwing things out there??? Edited February 15, 2009 by Indrid cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 If I remember correctly the yellow wire goes to the minus side of the coil not the plus side. I doubt that the coil is bad. You also need verify that voltage is getting to the plus and minus sides of the coil when the key is in the ON position. If you don't have voltage there then check the fuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hey Gents, I painted that motor that i put in my brat. I replaced the coil. I wiggled some wires and got a spark but wasnt much, The new coil started getting hot so i stopped trying. Do coils normaly get hot? Is it possible Im haveing these problems bc the motor isnt grounded very well? Im thinking that the paint isnt letting the lead ground well. Would this cause a coil to not spark right and get hot? As soon as i get home im going to clean the paint off and see if it helps Any other ideas? Thanks. Kelly O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 To have a good ground connection make sure there isn't any paint between the ground lead and the engine block. I doubt that is your problem. Coils do run pretty warm but there may be a problem with the pick-up in the ignition circuit. Also the new coil may require a ballast resistor but if you purchased the correct coil you should be ok. Current flows through the coil to the pick-up when the ignition is on. If there is a problem with the pick-up it could cause the coil to overheat and have a no spark condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Thanks cougar, I sure wish i could figure this thing out. I check the volts on the hot side of the coil and its only 10.7 or so. Is that right or should it be as hot as the battery is? The battery was 12.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) That sounds like it may be ok. There may be a ballast resistor in the line to drop the voltage a little in the Run mode. You could check to see if the voltage goes up in the Start mode though the starter will load the battery down some. Place a test light probe on the minus side of the coil and see if the light pulses when you crank the engine. If it doesn't then the pick up loop is bad. The pulses are needed to generate the high voltage for the spark Edited February 17, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Ok i did a little testing, when the points are closed inside the disty the volts to the coil are 10.7 but when the points are open the volts to the coil are 12.5 on the + side. I found this wire can someone please help me to where it might go? Could this possibly be why im having a spark problem??? I do know that one of the leads goes to that block on top of the coil which seems to be a resister i guess. I dont know if this little wire is a hot or a ground or where it goes. Can someone with the same setup please tell me if this could be my problem?? Thanks KO Edited February 17, 2009 by kellyray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Im desperate! Anyone know what that little wire is or if it could be my problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
()__1337_CRAYOLA__()> Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 that thing grounds to the body and the neg (-) side of the coil but i doubt thats your problem as i run my ea81 brat without it:-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) The voltage readings you took are normal. That is the condensor you show in the picture and it helps eliminate the inductive kickback spark coming from the coil and across the points when they open. The lead that is broken off would tie to the minus side of the coil and the other lead ties to ground. Purchase a new one and install it to those points and use the clip on the side of the condensor to mount it somehow to a bracket. This shouldn't keep the engine from running but I think it will help it run better. Your last picture does show the ballast resistor mounted on top of the coil. The condensor does not tie to it. Edited February 17, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 So i need to connect that wire to the neg (-) side of the coil and ground it somewhere? Correct? At one point i was getting spark but it was very weak and the motor wont even rev up. It would barely idle. The warmer it got the worse it idled. and now im to the point of no spark again. Maybe for some reason it wont run without this wire? Maybe its causing the coil to get hot?? Thanks fellas for the post. It really helps alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So i need to connect that wire to the neg (-) side of the coil and ground it somewhere? Correct? At one point i was getting spark but it was very weak and the motor wont even rev up. It would barely idle. The warmer it got the worse it idled. and now im to the point of no spark again. Maybe for some reason it wont run without this wire? Maybe its causing the coil to get hot?? Thanks fellas for the post. It really helps alot. Have you checked you're point gap? Dwell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 i havent measured it. What should it be? .028? i think. and if it is off how do i go about adjusting them? I didnt see a way to adjust the gap. is there a way too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) that looks like a condenser , let me check my car... looks like it runs between the + side termenal and ground. maby to take out voltage spikes, should run without it, it may screw up your radio with noise ?? you should check all your ground wires, it can do weird things to your car if their bad Edited February 17, 2009 by ivantruckman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 The lead that is broken off would tie to the minus side of the coil and the other lead ties to ground. Cougar says minus side. Are you sure? I think that i might just try and fix it without it? Since everyone thinks that its not my problem. I dont know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i havent measured it. What should it be? .028? i think.and if it is off how do i go about adjusting them? I didnt see a way to adjust the gap. is there a way too? Look at the last pic you posted. inside the disty, to the right of the shaft, is a screw that is holding down the plate the points are mounted on. Loosen that screw. Rotate the engine by hand, watching the lobes that the points ride on. Stop when the points ride on the highest part of the lobe. This is the "open" position of the points, and where you would make the adjustment to the proper gap. Adjust by sliding the plate under that screw, then tighten when you get it set. I'll bet this is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Cougar says minus side. Are you sure? I think that i might just try and fix it without it? Since everyone thinks that its not my problem. I dont know what to do. I believe it should be on the positive side as well. That is where that type of condensor has always been on every subaru and non-subaru points setup I've ever seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Gloyale that helps alot. That makes perfect sence. So that broke wire goes from a hot side of my coil to a ground? Man that just doesnt seem right. Grounding a Hot. lol. Think i should just leave it off? If the dwell was far off would it overheat the coil and cause it to stop sparking? Does .002 make a big difference in the gap? Just curious. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Gloyale that helps alot. That makes perfect sence. So that broke wire goes from a hot side of my coil to a ground? Man that just doesnt seem right. Grounding a Hot. lol. Think i should just leave it off? If the dwell was far off would it overheat the coil and cause it to stop sparking? Does .002 make a big difference in the gap? Just curious. Thanks again. Well, too samll a gap, and the primary circuit is never broken, so the voltage never jumps to the secondary side(spark out to disty) If the gap is too large, the points don't close long enough to build hte charge to fire through the secondary side. Also, it could help to very lightly file or scrape the contacts of the points themselves. And yes, I am quite sure that the condensor goes on the positive side. There is a VERY high resistance in that condensor, so the Voltage doesn't really get "grounded", too much resistance. Much easier for hte voltage to run through the coil windings. But when 20k volts builds up after the points close eachtime, it allows that surge a path to ground. Edited February 17, 2009 by Gloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 If the dwell is sooooo touchy why do people FILE them? I did do that thinking it might run better once i put this other motor in. Just enought to clean up the points. Is this where i probably F 'ed up? Bc the other motor ran fine as far as ignition goes. and the only thing i did was file them a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Are you using you're original disty or one that came with this motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyray Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 the motor that i just put in there has caught fire once and the old disty was trash. So i use another disty that was on the motor i pulled out. Before i pulled the disty out I rotated the motor by hand and i marked exactly where it was by the flat spot on the shaft that the rotor slides on. Without rotating the motor, I carefully stabbed the new disty in the same place. I am 99.99 percent sure it got it lined up exactly. There seemed to be a big difference in the teeth of that gear. If i was one behind it was way off my mark and the same what if i was forward. Shouldnt the coil still throw a normal spark even if I was off a tooth? im not saying it would run but i thought it dam sure would spark Does all that make sence to ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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