Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 hmm slightly puzzled, acts like iac is bad -(unplugging iac makes no change hot or cold engine) i had an extra , cleaned it and put it on got voltage at connector to iac, resistence is within spec, applying voltage to iac i can see the plunger moving and hear the solenoid click cel comes on cold, goes away warm, car idles warm - not normally, slightly rough and under speed, but idles now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well if the IAC is working, and the idle just isn't fast enough, you may need to adjust the idle speed. To test IAC; http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1772102/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c15280066fc6 For idle, there is a screw on the thottle body, I think this picture is for the turbo, but it's recessed a bit and turning it should raise or lower the idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) something isn't right, it has "no choke", maybe the iac's aren't quite right after all, but is there anything else in those 20 or so greasy widgets, dashpots, thing-a-ma-jigs and wiry bits that can make the car run as if it had "no choke"? anyone? buehler? buehler? anyone got a reader i can borrow, the dealer wants $80 just to hook the car to the diagnostic machine Edited February 18, 2009 by Txakura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Maybe another sensor is the problem, like the coolant temp sensor. Follow that link to Autozone repair guide I left in the other post and check the test procedures for all the other sensors. Fuel injection introduces a rich fuel mixture at start up for a "choke", if it starts then that isn't the problem. You don't need a diagnostic tool; http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 You don't need a diagnostic tool; http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/ No he doesn't. this is a loyale. won't hook up to a scanner unless someone has an old Subie "Select Monitor" Just pull the lower trim, and look for the little light on the front of the ECU. should be blinking a code. searcht eh forum and there is PLENTY of descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 oh yes, lots of code posts, cel light confuses the hell out of me... not sure what it's trying to tell me - will look at ecu for giggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 oh yes, lots of code posts, cel light confuses the hell out of me... not sure what it's trying to tell me - will look at ecu for giggles CEL should either be OFF or ON. If it is flashing, go under the hood and disconnect your green connectors (the ones for timing setting) they should not be hooked toghether for normal drivng codes read on the ECU, not on the CEL light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 CEL should either be OFF or ON. If it is flashing, go under the hood and disconnect your green connectors (the ones for timing setting) they should not be hooked toghether for normal drivng codes read on the ECU, not on the CEL light roger, going to check the ecu itself, green connectors are not, uh, connected however, my cel has been sending me morris code that matches the description of the ecu signal, think it may be a 1990 spfi thing "90 models - Trouble codes on the Justy are viewed on the Oxygen Moniter light, all other models the codes can be viewed on either the Oxygen Moniter light or the MIL (check engine light)." this is a loyale rs so i'm assuming it falls under 'all other models' but no day is complete without sticking my head under the dashboard and practicing inverted yoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) CEL should either be OFF or ON. If it is flashing, go under the hood and disconnect your green connectors (the ones for timing setting) they should not be hooked toghether for normal drivng codes read on the ECU, not on the CEL light roger, going to check the ecu itself, green connectors are not, uh, connected i'll be damned, 55? "88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection code 55 EGR temperature sensor or circuit" is the 'egr temp sensor' different than the egr valve itself? going to go stare at car... my manual is clear as mud and half as useful that would make it run like dooky on startup? Edited February 18, 2009 by Txakura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 roger, going to check the ecu itself, green connectors are not, uh, connected however, my cel has been sending me morris code that matches the description of the ecu signal, think it may be a 1990 spfi thing I don't think they changed anything about the EA82 code proceedure in 90. Pretty sure it is the light on the ECU to check. But for giggles, what would that code be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 roger, going to check the ecu itself, green connectors are not, uh, connected i'll be damned, 55? "88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection code 55 EGR temperature sensor or circuit" that would make it run like dooky on startup? Is it a cali model? I think on;y cali models had that EGR temp sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I don't think they changed anything about the EA82 code proceedure in 90. Pretty sure it is the light on the ECU to check. But for giggles, what would that code be? not the same as the ecu, 48? no such code? anyway, i followed the vacuum line from the egr valve to the greasy cube on the manifold, to the right of the thermostat housing, to the left of the throttle body and under every other hose and wire it seems to be the electrical device that allows vacuum to the egr diaphram the connector had 11.57 volts with the key in the on position, the cube had a resistence of 35 ohms, i blew some crc electrical contact cleaner through it and let it dry and cleaned the filter material on the tiny air vent still got '55' code on key on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised if it's the ECM itself. That black cube is the egr solenoid, you should also have one for the purge valve on the vapor canister. They're all junk. There's a post on here somewhere about replacing them with Toyota ones. It doesn't have anything to do with the EGR temp. If your car isn't a Cali model, I say replace the ECM, since you don't even have an egr temp sensor. You did have the connectors connected right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) 1)I wouldn't be surprised if it's the ECM itself. 2) That black cube is the egr solenoid, you should also have one for the purge valve on the vapor canister. 3) They're all junk. There's a post on here somewhere about replacing them with Toyota ones. 4) It doesn't have anything to do with the EGR temp. 5) If your car isn't a Cali model, I say replace the ECM, since you don't even have an egr temp sensor. 6) You did have the connectors connected right? 1, me either, fortunately they are $65 at my local yard for this car 2, roger that - egr solenoid, not the wrong place to look to see if it was working i guess, yes purge valve too 3, i'll look into that 4, is this about egr temp or is my system just not working? would a bad egr valve do this? 5, not cali 6 did i plug it all back in after looking for voltage, continuity, vacuum leaks and trying to clean the solenoids? yes and what the hell does this have to do with my cold idle? :-\ Edited February 19, 2009 by Txakura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 What I meant was were the test connectors connected correctly, but I think now that they were. It could also be a sticking egr valve itself. Sticking open a bit. Remove it, clean the carbon off with carb cleaner and try again. it has a lot to do with the cold idle, warm idle, everything really. The ecm uses the input of the sensors, cts, tps, maf, O2, etc to know what the engine is doing, what you want it to do, and what environment it is in to know how to adjust fuel and ignition so it runs properly. it could be the CTS, and the ECM thinks the engine is warm so the mixture isn't rich enough to run properly when cold. Remove it, clean the corrosion off of it, the threads in the manifold, and the electric connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 crap, there's no vacuum to the egr valve past the egr solenoid I think I just need another solenoid, preferably toyota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 That would be ok for now, as long as it's completely closed. if it's open just a bit it will cause poor idling. It should really only be open around at high vacuum, acceleration or high load. You can bypass that solenoid for now and use a new hose from the base of the throttle body to the egr. That solenoid only opens up when the engine is warm. You bypass it, you may have a stumble when the engines cold, but it will be fine. If that solenoid isn't opening, or staying open, you'll get a check enge light. I have that going on on my car. A used, thought to be good solenoid didn't fix it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88RxTuner Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I would suggest mechanically testing both the EGR solenoid and the EGR valve. Get a couple lengths of vacuum hose about a foot long, sized to fit your EGR vacuum fittings. First, set your ECM in "test" mode, just connect the 2 green "T" connectors together, making sure the 2 Black connectors are NOT connected. Your car should start clicking, buzzing, whining, etc. as the ECM cycles all the ECM controlled functions on and off, this includes the EGR solenoid. If nothing clicks or buzzes,etc, there is a problem with your ECM or you have the black connectors hooked up as well. Next, remove the vacuum hoses from the EGR Solenoid, do not unplug it. Install your new vacuum line to the "manifold" side of the solenoid and suck on it... Now suck harder... If you can make suction and hold it, either the solenoid is not working right or is not getting powered to cycle. If you can make suction and hold it, and then it vents when the solenoid clicks, your solenoid is working fine **for now...** They all take the big crap, it's just a matter of when. NOW, if the solenoid works adequately and vents your mouth-vacuum about every 2 seconds, remove your hose from the solenoid, attach the hoses you disconnected from manifold and EGR valve. Remove the hose from the EGR valve itself. hook up your vaccum hose to it, and suck hard again... you should be able to generate vacuum and pull the EGR valve open, and it SHOULD hold vacuum. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the valve diaphragm is bad. You can also perform this last step (checking the EGR valve) with the engine at idle... if the valve is working and opening, it will cause the engine to stall out when you suck the valve open. If nothing happens, either you're not sucking hard enough or the diaphragm is bad, ***OR*** you have so much carbon build up in the EGR passage that it's not functioning anyway. Following these steps should help you isolate whether it's the solenoid, the valve, or the ECM. Hope this helps. 88RxTuner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Now I need to give my subaru a ******* to keep it happy? dasm the lengths i go to, i swear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 That would be ok for now, as long as it's completely closed. if it's open just a bit it will cause poor idling. It should really only be open around at high vacuum, acceleration or high load. that's why i didn't think of it when i was wondering about my idle, thought it only came into play above idle - didn't think of 'partially stuck open' You can bypass that solenoid for now and use a new hose from the base of the throttle body to the egr. That solenoid only opens up when the engine is warm. You bypass it, you may have a stumble when the engines cold, but it will be fine. well my system is completely inop, so actually it will only run better warm when i go to the boneyard to scavenge for toyota solenoids i'll grab more than one, want me to get another one for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) This is a wild goose chase First, really, we need to know is it a Cali model or not? someone may have swapped in a Cali ECU, which is looking for a temp sensor that isn't there. Look at the sticker under hte hood that sayts something like"this vehichle conforms....blah blah......applicable for new vehichles sold in _________" it will either say California or U.S. Or just look at the EGR valve, is there a small one wire sensor screwed into it at the base? If not, then you don't have an EGR temp sensor. If the wrong ECU is there, you can "switch" it by changing the wiring at one pin. Edited February 19, 2009 by Gloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 no no, the goose chase is over, it isn't a california model, never was the egr valve itself is fine, i played with it and it works - it's solely the solenoid, no power = wide open, power = slams shut and never opens I bypassed it and after all the crap burned out of my system (that was cool) the car is running much better - i'll do the toyota mod on that as far as the iac, i took the air valve off the solenoid portion and am soaking it in solvent to clean all the carbon off, i'll put that on later and see if my fast idle comes back ( i had 2, one is on the car but may not be working fully) there is no egr temp sensor, but the '88 and later spfi' code says 'temp sensor or circuit', i imagine a solenoid that is refusing to move may qualify as a 'short' in the circuit amd the ecu is dutifully reporting that as far as my cel sending codes, you guys think i'm smoking crack, but I'll catch it in the act and post a vid of it if I have to disconnect the battery and make it do it! so, one problem solved, but not THE problem - no fast idle when stone cold about the time i get this sorted out i should be ready to pull the damn engine - ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 never did solve this. I swapped the egr solenoid from a working ea82, cleaned the IAC, tried a different IAC, cleaned it too when I swapped steering columns from another ea82, (for the tilt), I left the ecu on and ran with that eventually, the problem went away with an engine change - to another 1.8 spfi with fewer miles - that ruled out the 02 sensor from the original set up so it seems it was something on the old engine, but I don't know what, now my Cel is off and I have normal starts - hell, I've even got oil pressure again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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