Guest blondy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hiya Peoples, Well, i have been reading and reading and searching and searching. My mate put in my mind and the hint that it would be possible to turbo my outback, but after having a look through the forums and words with another mate, i've pretty much canned the idea since it's too costly and there's too many things to change. I'll just upgrade one day when i can afford it, which will be a long way down the track since i just got my 2005 outback...aka skippy. I did have the idea of supercharging too after lookin at a certain users post...but i don't wanna break my car yet, nor have that kind of money to spend or the no/do how to do my own custom install. What i was wanting to know, is how to get that nice subaru rumble/growl outa my car. A nice middle loudness if possible, something that aint really quite or overly loud that it grabs attention from the boys in blue. But something that makes people turn their head and when you giv it sumthin...you and others will know it. If thats possible. I had a gander around with the search feature, but i couldn't really find anything that really suited my car, and i want to keep my twin exhaust setup at the back...even though people say that single is better...but i like double. I was also thinking about going the full system...extractors and all...depending on the cost of things. What i was aiming on doing, is finding out what i need to do, and then go to my exhaust guy and tell him what i want and how much he can do it for. At the very back i was looking at getting two 4inch tipped canons. Had him do a full system for my old car which was a 2002 holden astra, it sounded really nice at low revs, but the moment you started to hit the higher revs, it sounded like a two stroke chain saw and well...crappy. All he did was extractors and a 2.25 staneless steel sports system which had a hotdog mid way and a performance box at the back. So this time i want to make sure it's done right. I have seen that you can buy complete systems, but most seem to be for impreza's and for turbo's. I would buy a kit and do it myself, but this is my only car and it would take alot longer for me to do. I am one that likes to try and do things and have a bit of mechanical mind, but then again i aint no expert and only find things out once i've done it. Plus this way i'll have a warranty on the install. Plus i haven't really found out good places to go to get stuff for my subaru yet. Um...I think i covered everything, sorry for the essay, but hopefully some of you guys made it through to the end and i didn't completely confuse you in my rambling. Thanks heaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Listen to a WRX some time. It is not a pretty exhaust note. Subaru's seem to double up exhaust pulses so they just plain sound out of tune when you put a coffee can system on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Subarus are fairly free breathing beasts to being with, as is most modern cars. The goal with OBDII has been to get as much performance as possible from a given engine and meet the required standards. About the only thing that you can do is a free flow catalytic converter. You can also modify your snorkus (Air intake ssytem). Subarus already have a Cold Air Induction system, but the plumbing can be cleaned up a bit. If you ever plan to have true fun with your sooby (mud dirt etc) I would recomend keeping the sinus (air box under the fender) for the snorkus and just doing somethig with the under hood part. The factory sinus does a great job of keeping the engine from digesting water. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well i actually like the sound of Subaru's when you put a new exhaust on them...but every1 has different opinions i guess...some like quiet cars and others like abit of noise. Air intake will be another day...i just wanna do the exhaust for now....then i'll look into maybe doing a different air intake system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 But you see the air intake is just as responsible for the noise as the exhaust is. Especially at WOT. But do what you wish, its your money. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 sorry but i'm farily n00bish still, but i'm working on it. So your saying that the air intake will affect the sound of my exhaust note aswell? If that is true, i didn't really know that? Oh and it's prolly really obvious, but what is WOT??? This is my current setup under the hood...yes stock, but i was looking at maybe doing a new pipe setup after the exhaust, but if it's going to affect the exhaust note, i may have to change the order in which i do things. But i'm prolly getting ahead of myself and mis-read your intent on the last message. I don't plan on going crazy 4X4ing in this, if anything there might be just some sand duning and mild off road, but nothing more until i upgrade to something with a little more power. But thats way down the track. I'll stop rambling now and hopefully i didnt blow things out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Wow! Looks nice under there, blondy. Is that an EJ25? By the way, WOT means Wide Open Throttle. Good luck with the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yep its a EJ25...had to look under the hood first...but it is. Should look good and clean...its only a 2005 model outback and hasn't done any off roading apart from dirt road travels from the previous owner...and maybe a little bit of fun from me too to see how it travels...(sideways) Ah...now i remember what it means...read it in a thread ages ago but had a mind blank...thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 So no one else has any other helpful ideas??? Just to let you know where i'm at, I went to my local one and only exhaust guy out my way. He seems to think that just putting two performance box's and then welding on the tips i want will do the job and the sound I'm after. Any idea's if he knows what he's on about? or should i think he doesn't know what he's on about. Originally i was thinking about doing the whole system from front to back, but then again is it really worth it? would i be better off just doing a cat back system, or an axle back? Seeing that it's such a modern car, its probably tuned and running at its best with what's in it now. Otherwise if there was gain, wouldn't they already put extractors in it from new??? I come before you as a sponge...tip your bucket of knowledge on me to soak up and become slightly smarterer....hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superu Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Hey Blondy, I can appreciate your want for good advice and helpful tips from the wealth of folks here that have done it all. I'll share what I did in my NA, EJ22 95 legacy, and what I'd do again if I had the chance. This is my daily driver, but I have done some slight off road modification for more ground clearance and a rougher appearance and functionality. Its not a true off roader since I do not have the gearing, but i get it sideways in dirt/gravel and snow. I go off road for recreation (mt. biking, hiking, backpacking, climbing, etc.) and can go on LOTS more trails than a stock Legacy L or impreza, because of clearance alone. Anyhoo, my rig (while 10 years older than yours) has a lot of the same or similar plumbing, so this may not be too off the base for your situation. First, I removed the snorkus from the fender and replaced the box air filter with a high flow re-usable one (i used K&N, but there are others). Then I did a complete 2.25 inch piping replacement removing the cats (there are 2 in my car) running it through a magnaflow high flow muffler. The outcome of this was, complete LOSS of all low end torque and WICKED, CRAZY loud! Think something similar to stock or indy car racing, drag racing, etc. Open exhaust like Went back and had both cats reinstalled and added a 12 inch cherry bomb (hot dog, whatever you want to call it) installed in line where the factory resonator sits in the factory piping. After reinstalling the cats, I regained the back pressure that I'm told these motors like and need, and gave me the low end again. There is a coupling in the exhaust after the second cat, so the muffler shop SHOULD have done the 2.25 cat back from that coupling (AS I ASKED) so that I could just bolt up the factory piping if I wanted to. Anyway, they hacked it up and gave me the factory piping in pieces, but I digress. The 2.25 cat back through a cherry bomb resonator and a magnaflow muffler gives me a nice deep rumble, but the cherry bomb and cats do the muffling, so its not a ricey rocket, chainsaw, or a stock car noise machine. If I did it again, I would leave the snorkus in the fender and modify the intake between the filter box and the intake manifold (read: cold air intake). My rig is a MAP system yours I believe is a MAV or MAT? Whatever it is, its a different sensoring system and dictates a little different action between the air filter box and the actual intake manifold junction. (I admit I do not know all the correct terms of the parts I am talking about, but others here do) Check this link for LOTS of good intake info: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477393&highlight=snorkus+intake+cold+air If this isn't the one I'm thinking of that I read a couple months ago, it has good info and definitions. Anyway, yes modifying the intake changes the exhaust tone. Deleting the snorkus give you a deeper and a bit louder note.. I've deleted the snorkus and stock box filter setup for a cone filter in my wife's EJ18 '93 impreza, and JUST that mod makes it a bit deeper and you get a bit of air sucking up front too. BUT this killed the fuel economy, mostly cuz it sounded cool, so i spent a lot of time with my right foot pushing the peddle down. (shrug) So in summary for my EJ22 NA 95 legacy, i deleted the snorkus and replaced the filter with a K&N box filter replacement (If i did this again i would leave the snorkus and modify the piping AFTER the filter box). I did 2.25 inch AFTER the catS, LEAVING the factory exhaust header and critical "Y" pipe (if I did it again, i would change for a higher flow cat, and MAYBE true headers). I went 2.25 inch back through a 12 inch cherry bomb and magnaflow muffler, NOT dyna flow, those have a tinny whiney note at high revs (read: WOT . (I like the cherry bomb acting like a resonator to quiet the tone, as is factory). I think your twin pipe is an artifact of appearance. If I'm wrong someone will chime in, but i think your factory exhaust (like mine) leaves the engine through paired exhaust headers, joins through a "Y" pipe, goes through the cat(s), continues back through a resonator as ONE pipe, then (different from mine) splits up again to pair off into bilateral mufflers and tips. People here do different things and get different results. Opinions are many and advice usually is too, so keep asking and maybe try other forum threads here too. Might be you get a larger audience by going into other USMB forums. I know i used to ONLY look at the off road forum, but there's good info elsewhere too. Good luck and keep everyone updated. Everyone LOVES pictures too These pix show the factory Y pipe with cats, the beginning of the 2.25", the entire exhaust hanging under the car, a close-er up shot of the cherry bomb, and the magna flow. I had the shop "tuck" the system up tight to the body for additional ground clearance, and they did a great job at that! cheers, -mark- Edited March 25, 2009 by superu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 sorry but i'm farily n00bish still, but i'm working on it. So your saying that the air intake will affect the sound of my exhaust note aswell? If that is true, i didn't really know that? <snip> I'll stop rambling now and hopefully i didnt blow things out of proportion. Not so much that, but if you change the intake system you'll hear a good bit of noise from the air cleaner. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yea i knew that depending on the air intake chosen, it could sound like i have a vacuum under the hood. But i didn't realise that it could affect the exhaust note...cheers for clarifying. *superu: Cheers for the write up, has given me alot of info which i have found very valuable. Has made me think twice about doing the air intake/made me a little worried at the same time...think i may need to investigate after doing my exhaust into the style of air intake i really want to look into. Oh...and yes my exhaust does split from a single pipe into a double through the use of a y-pipe. I stumbled across a youtube video last night of a subie with the note i really like, which didn't seem to be too loud...yet had a nice note and the right amount of loudness...hehe Seems to me that all they did was put on a 3" SS Magnaflow box, as far as i could tell from the post. After looking at magnaflow's site, i've come to the conclusion that by the 3" model, they mean the box with a 3" core. Please correct me if you think i'm wrong. So what i was thinking of doing, since a full system is starting to sound too hard/expensive. I was going to get 2 of the above magnaflow boxes, since my outback has twin exhausts, and then change the stock cat to a hi-flow cat of some type. Do i need to re-do the piping from the cat back then? or can i use the stock piping still? or would that not be very wise? I've also contacted a new exhaust place that deals with magnaflow products in Adelaide about an exhaust and what they recommend, i'm willing to travel for down town, only takes about an hour to get there from where i am. Thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superu Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 sounds like you're narrowing in to your goal.. Subarus breath and flow pretty well stock, so if cost and a wearyness of messing up something for sound alone, I'd support your idea of just replacing the mufflers. keeping all the pipe stock, consider replacing the cat for a high flow, replace the mufflers with magnaflows and maybe replace the intake piping between the air filter box and the engine intake. This way you'll get a little better flow directly into the engine, you'll keep the exhaust back pressure, increase fluididty of flow through the cat and keep the minor resonator in the stock exhaust but increase flow through the mufflers resulting in a nice mellow, but deep tone. If you DO increase pipe diameter through a cat back, that will help with the deep note at higher revs (WOT) and keep it DEEP. BUT if you go the cat back route, I'd consider installing a small charry bomb in-line as a resonator to keep it mellow, but deep and not loud! Other than that, doing the exhaust mods you hear on sweet wrxs and rally cars, unfortuately you'll just need a new car The 2.5 block is good and produces a nice tone, but you sure get a better rumble with a turbo or twin turbo:slobber: I hope my experience and opinion helps with some ideas.. Good luck and figure out how to do a video online with the sound whenever you get it all done, and share share share Ciao, -mw- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 yea i'm slowly getting there...but my mind keeps getting changed the more i look into it things. So if i was to go for the full cat back option, is there any particular sizes/brands that you have had experience with, which i should aim for in regards to the cat and hotdog/cherry bomb (or woteva u want to call it)? Plans are to go from hi-flow cat to a hotdog/cherry bomb, to the dual magnaflow boxes at the rear. Then i'll get the 2.25" piping to join them all up. I pretty much know which maganaflow box i'm getting, but i have one question about the core size on the box. I was originally thinking the 3" but i have since then found out that 2.25" piping is the biggest i should go for a 2.5l non-turbo due to performance reasons. Am i to think this only applies to the actual whole piping of the exhaust, or should i use the same core size in the box as i do for the rest of the piping. So in my case 2.25" and/or is this core size going to have any affect at all with my application i'm planning on doing. I'm probably thinking about this way too much/hard, but just making sure i don't get my wires crossed...too much... But yea...new i wouldn't get the same as a turbo car in sound, but wanna try for something close....and yes superu...you have and are being a great load of help...cheers I should be able to work out how to put a clip up...if not i probably shouldn't be working in I.T....lol Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superu Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 So if i was to go for the full cat back option, is there any particular sizes/brands that you have had experience with, which i should aim for in regards to the cat and hotdog/cherry bomb (or woteva u want to call it)? I did not use any kit. I just went to an exhaust/muffler shop and said, "i want 2.25" pipe from the rear cat back through a magnaflow muffler. And put in a small cherry bomb in-line where the factory resonator was (this i figured would be good after the NO cats 2.25" pipe and magnaflow alone). Plans are to go from hi-flow cat to a hotdog/cherry bomb, to the dual magnaflow boxes at the rear. Then i'll get the 2.25" piping to join them all up. Sounds good! I pretty much know which maganaflow box i'm getting, but i have one question about the core size on the box. I was originally thinking the 3" but i have since then found out that 2.25" piping is the biggest i should go for a 2.5l non-turbo due to performance reasons. Am i to think this only applies to the actual whole piping of the exhaust, or should i use the same core size in the box as i do for the rest of the piping. So in my case 2.25" and/or is this core size going to have any affect at all with my application i'm planning on doing. I don't think that applies to muffler core size. I'm sure my muffler's core size is larger than the exhaust pipe's diameter. That's what allows the muffler to flow the exhaust out with less retriction, i.e. high flow. My magnaflow is a 14" by 9" (external diameter) satin stainless oval, offset (input) center (output) with 2.25" in and out pipe diameter. I'm probably thinking about this way too much/hard, but just making sure i don't get my wires crossed...too much... Nope. I am with you and wanting it to be right. It's good to get as much info as possible about and for your rig, so keep digging up the right information!! As such it still peeves me a bit when I think about it, that they did not do EXACTLY what I asked, namely building the catback from the flange after the last cat, so I could bolt on the factory piping if I were to sell the ar or something. Although this was all before I was ENTIRELY sold on Subaru.. But now (that iI've owned it for 5.5 years), I doubt i'm ever going to sell this car. I should be able to work out how to put a clip up...if not i probably shouldn't be working in I.T....lol :lol: nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Does any1 agree with the following that i was told in regards to the setup i was planning to go for. I was informed that if i was just going for sound, to skip the hi flow cat unless mine is shot. A cherry bomb is just a cheap straight through muffler and loud as hell. putting that in line with another set of mufflers makes little sense, they're loud when used as the only muffler but, when used in conjunction with another muffler will only reduce the sound output. Also, do you reckon the sound will be any different if i was to use a magnaflow box with a 3" core over one with a 2.5" core size? And lastly...if any1 from SA, for instance the Adelaide area...i'm only bout an hour from town just so happens to read this, are able to recommend a place to go for good prices and fitting of magnaflow? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Excuse me for not reading all the other posts, but heres my opinion. Because it is a $10,000 minimum here in Australia to be caught without a catalytic converter, and your comments on not spending too much, I would suggest sticking with the standard Y-pipe's (Those are the Headers/Extractors). This is because catalytic converters cost $$$ for aftermarket high flow ones. And I really doubt you'll feel the difference in power between having stock Y-pipe to an aftermarket high flow y-pipe. Now for that note you want... Personally I think "cannons" or "fart cans" as they are also known make for a terrible sound on most cars. Get a 2" cat back (this means from behind the cat converter to the back of the car) setup. Put a long resonator in the middle, say 18 to 24 inches, and a straight through 2" muffler in the rear replacing the standard one.. Then either a 2" or a 2.5" tip. This will just change the note. 2.5" will be a deeper note, but I found my EJ22 with a 2" straight through exhaust and 2" tip sounded beautiful. Oh and about the intake... If you replace the standard airbox with just a foam Uni filter (pod style) you will get a awesome sound from under the hood. But they aren't as good at keeping water out of the engine offroad and you loose the CAI unless you make some shielding to direct cold air onto the filter. Edited April 3, 2009 by Phizinza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Thanks for your two cents Phizinza. I had ditched the idea of extractors, i was mainly looking at going from hi-flow cat to a hotdog/cherry bomb, to the dual magnaflow boxes at the rear. Then i'll get the 2.25" piping to join them all up. But after what you said i prolly ditch the idea of a hi-flow cat now too. In regards to the resonator, its got a fairly large stock one in it at the moment. What are your thorts towards replacing the stock one with a hotdog like superu was suggesting? I've found a couple of people with mixed decisions of putting one in to replace the resonator. I was still leaning towards 2.25" piping tho. Then the boxes at the back i'm still aiming for the magnaflows, but not sure if i should go for the ones with a 2.5" or a 3" core. Don't know if ther will be a differences between the two once installed??? Cheers again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Once you get to 2" straight through setup you won't notice any performance from bigger anything in the system. But it will sound different. Larger will be slightly louder and a fair bit deaper. But you'll find larger will also be more prone to "droning" in the car. I really like the note and tone of the 2" size with 2" tip. Its all personal preference You might be able to hear the note I'm talking about in this video of my old Brumby/Brat with EJ22 and 2" cat back straight through with a muffler like I described in my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 A cherry bomb is just a cheap straight through muffler and loud as hell. putting that in line with another set of mufflers makes little sense, they're loud when used as the only muffler but, when used in conjunction with another muffler will only reduce the sound output. Not true at all. I have a 2 1/4" cat back on my EJ22. It was straight pipe to a cherry bomb at the end. It was annoyingly loud, but sounded ok tone wise. I decided to take the cherry bomb off and put a flowmaster 40 series on. Surprisingly, it was louder than the cherry bomb and sounded worse. So I cut the pipe right by the rear u-joint in the driveshaft and put the cherry bomb there. Nice burble at idle, good tone under WOT, and not too loud. It's the perfect setup in my opinion. As one of my friends said, "It's amazing that two things known for being loud and annoying can sound good when put together." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Exhausts are more of an art then a science I've found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Rite...thanks again guys...i think i've just about got it all setp in mud now...until sum1 else chimes in and changes my mind again...hehe The setup i'm gonna start to investigate with exhaust places, since i don't have the time/skills to be trusted to do the install myself, is as follows; Catback 2.25" piping to a hotdog/cherry bomb, more 2.25" piping which then splits and goes to 2 Magnaflow Sports Muffler 8"x 5" [14827 street] 4" tip boxes at the rear. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be over the top loud, and get me into trouble...Since i have had one warning from someone that due to the fact i'm putting two in at the rear, it may be louder than just doin one...but no one is changing my mind to a single, cos i've always wanted a car with two before i was able to drive and none of my others could fit the pipe work for it...but now this one will so i aint gonna miss the chance. One last thing though...Hotdog sizes? i didn't really put much thought along the lines of the sizes that they came in...i thought a hotdog was a hotdog. Any one no of the advantages and disadvantages of a smaller one over a bigger one? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Bump... almost there guys and then i'll stop pestering...hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superu Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) Bump... almost there guys and then i'll stop pestering...hehe been away a week. My cherry bomb is 12" by about 4". Its true they come in different lengths. If you back check this thread, i think page 1 has pix of my entire setup. The magnaflow is really at the end with like 6 inches of pipe after it, and the 12" cherry bomb is where the factory, in-line resonator would be. So, you're at 2.25"cat back, no cat changes, a cherry bomb, then 2 2.25 in/out magnaflows at the ends, with room for a tip or just plain tail pipe? Sounds killer!! BTW, I COMPLETELY agree with liking and wanting twin tip exhaust at the end, (even if they're kinda for show and not real dual exhaust)! Edited April 19, 2009 by superu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blondy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Yep...that sounds a bit right...i'm just worried that it's gonna be too loud...but now i know what i'm going to be after...hopefully the exhaust guy will have some knowledge to be able to help...prolly not my local guy...but one from down town...it's an hour away...but i'm willing to travel to get the right thing done the first time. I actually got around to photo-shopping some pics of two of the tip setups i'm toying with....i was thinking of finding the equivalent magnaflow box with out a tip and put twin dump pipes at the back....i like the look and i don't see any cars around with dump pipes...just the big round tips...i'd like to be different. Heres the stock setup: This is the twin dump pipe setup: and i did one of the twin straight out round setup: (tips are a bit bigger than what they probably should be, but it was getting late and i couldn't be bothered changing them) No matter what i'm planning it to end up with a 4" tip of some kind... Feel free to give me your honest opinions, i don't care if you say that you hate/dislike any of them...everyone is free to voice their own personal opinion...everyone has their own taste in the matter... One last thing to complete another essay, while looking for dump pipe images to do my photo-shopping, i stumbled across this little note someone made about dump pipes and rolled in edge tips: I would only think this would make a difference/affect high performance cars that have been specifically tuned for that exhaust. For instance in my case, i wouldn't think it would affect anything since its mainly for note and hasn't been done to produce any performance gain...anything added is just a bonus. "Tips that are either down or up-swept introduce an unnecessary bend and - therefore - increase restriction. Oh, and don't be tempted by tips with rolled in edge - these can cause massive in-pipe turbulence and drones." Thanks again...i am trying to teach myself not to post such big essays...but sometimes i just can't help it...hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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