biggman100 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I was just wondering if you guys could give any info on where to find a cam locking tool for the DOHC 2.5l. I have 3 different cars i have to do head gaskets on, and would prefer to buy the tool, than to make one on my own. Any help you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentmoy Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 There are some home made tools that people use. Go do a search on nasioc.com you may find something. But if you wanna go the OEM route, this site is the place to go. DO expect a little spendy. I got my CAM lock tool for 2.2 for a little less than $100. http://subaru.spx.com/index.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 You don't need any special tools to do head gaskets on a 2.5 Before you pull the belt off break the cam bolts loose. An air gun works great for this. If you don't have one just wedge a prybar in the flywheel and break the bolts loose. I do these gaskets all the time and don't use any special tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Before you pull the belt off break the cam bolts loose. An air gun works great for this. If you don't have one just wedge a prybar in the flywheel and break the bolts loose. Uggg........ Stripped belts......and how do you retorque it? This is not an acceptable method to me. (i've had to replace a whole motor after a cam pulley came loose:mad:) Here is the best way. The key is that each Camshaft has a hex notch on it, toward the front of engine. Use a 1 inch open end wrench on the cam to hold it from rotating, then tighten the pulley. This way you can tighten them to 90 + ft/lbs. with no stress on the belt. You just have to remember to leave the Valve covers off until you have the belt pulleys installed. It can even be done with the eninge installed. Although it is WAY easier to do DOHC motors out of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Im not looking for the tools so that i can take the cam gears off, i am looking for it to lock the cams so they dont turn and damage anything when i take the belt off. I have been told that these engines can be damaged by the cams turning when you take the belt off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Im not looking for the tools so that i can take the cam gears off, i am looking for it to lock the cams so they dont turn and damage anything when i take the belt off. I have been told that these engines can be damaged by the cams turning when you take the belt off. They can't. As long as you line the marks up when you take the belt off and don't turn the crank, you can turn the cams as many times as you like and it won't damage anything. When the crank is on the timing mark, all the pistons are down. On the other hand, if you turn the crank with the valves open the will hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 They can't. As long as you line the marks up when you take the belt off and don't turn the crank, you can turn the cams as many times as you like and it won't damage anything. When the crank is on the timing mark, all the pistons are down. I had your same question some ago and Tom said it wouldn't be a problem. It wasn't. I even forgot and removed a TB without lineing things up first one time. And escaped unscathed. Yes I could have just been lucky - but I'm not really that lucky. I had heard/read that the valves can even contact each other (intake/exhaust) but in my cases they were still "tied together" by the TB so after I centered the pistons I was o.k. But it IS an interference engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 From what i have heard from others and read from different sources, if you take the belt off and the cams move, it can damage the valves, even if the pistons arent anywhere near the valves. This is a direct quote from a pdf i downloaded from endwrench: If the intake and exhaust cams are allowed to get out of time in relation to one another, intake and exhaust valves will collide in the combustion chamber area. Intake valves in four-valve heads are necessarily small, and more easily damaged than similar components on two-valve engines. A collision between valves, even when the engine is not running (during a timing belt replacement for example), can cause valve damage. When the timing marks are in the proper position for belt replacement, several of the valves are either open or partially open. Removing the timing belt now will let the camshafts turn in a sudden and uncontrolled manner as the valve spring pressure causes the partially opened valves to slam shut. As these valves close, others will try to open. What can happen next? You guessed it — valve-to-valve interference. Before you can say ‘Oops,’ you could be looking at a few slightly tweaked valves. This is why i am looking for the tools to do the job right. I dont want to replace close to 800 dollars in parts (yes thats what it cost total for the parts for one of the engines, which was seriously misused and not taken care of very well), only to damage something internally and have to replace the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I read the same stuff. And the load does cause the cams to spin. I don't have those tools. I'm guessing I've only done about a dozen TB jobs on them though. More often I'm replacing them with a 2.2. Guess I've been lucky 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 While it IS possible, it just won't really happen. not just from taking off the belt. The thing that makes the cam want to spring around is the tension of the springs. They want to spring closed, which means drawn back up into the head and away from eachother. What you don't want to do, is rotate one of the Cams around while the other one on the same head is holding a valve open. Which won't really happen because the cams want to spring around to their valve closed state. It's simple. Line up the timing marks before removing the old belt. In my experience, only the drivers side cams will want to spring around. So you can hold them steady as you release the tensioner then let them gently spin back slightly counterclockwise. Nothing inside the head will hit. When you install the new belt: I ussually wrap the belt over the crank, the passenger side pulleys (which line up easily) and under the tensioner. Then carefully with a 17mm wrench rotate the drivers intake cam around to the mark, set the belt, and hold it with one hand. Then with the 17mm again rotate the exhaust cam around to it's mark, then wrap the rest of the belt over the water pump and toothed idler. Push upward on the belt and install the lower passenger side idler. once all routed, push the tensioner pulley with your hand to take up the slack int he belt, then check all you're pulles for alignment again. **** A note about DOHC 2.5 CAM pulleys: I have seen a few DOHC motors were the hashmarks ( l l ) on the drivers side Cam pulleys don't quite line up right when using the marks on the belt. But ther is ussually also orange or white paint marks, as if factory marks, that DO line up precisely. In those cases I assume the paint is the correct mark,as the hashes are as close as they can be, and the engines have all run great. It did bother me quite abit the first time I tried for an hour and could never get he damn lines to be just right no matter how I set it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Heres another question that goes along with this whole thing. Im doing head gaskets on all 3 cars, not just the TB, and im wondering if i really need the tools for the cams since i have to take them off anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 It's tough to remember to leave the valve covers off and have the TB on - just doesn't seem right somehow. As Gloyale says: "I have seen a few DOHC motors were the hashmarks ( l l ) on the drivers side Cam pulleys don't quite line up right when using the marks on the belt. But ther is ussually also orange or white paint marks, as if factory marks, that DO line up precisely. In those cases I assume the paint is the correct mark,as the hashes are as close as they can be, and the engines have all run great. It did bother me quite abit the first time I tried for an hour and could never get he damn lines to be just right no matter how I set it." Really makes a fella paranoid knowing it's an interference engine. But probably half or more of the ones that I have done are like this. I also recently had a Subaru Tech do a TB on a friends 97 2.5 with a Dayco belt. He swore it didn't line up well either compared to a Subaru belt. Just an FYI - Dayco is all that I have ever used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I pressume that it is mostly just a slight variation in the molding of the cam pulleys. Because the lines on the belt hit the lines hashmarks dead on, but the hashmarks on the pulleys don't quite meet. like a 1/4 tooth off. But the painted marks do match exactly, I think proabably painted on during assembly after the original belt install. It has happened to me even with Subaru belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 The first subaru timing belt i ever did, was on a 2.2 in a 1994 legacy, and i didnt know anything about the belt having marks on it that line up with the pulleys, i just put the belt on and made sure that the marks on the pulleys were right, put it back together, and drove it for another 100k, so now i dont even bother looking at the marks on the belt anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) It's tough to remember to leave the valve covers off and have the TB on - just doesn't seem right somehow. I had already gotten into the habit with EA82 motors. You don't have to leave them off til after the belt. You just need to leave them off until you bolt the inner belt covers, and the pulleys back on. You can then install the valve covers, and just use a 17mm on the pulley bolts to turn the pulleys for belt installation. SOHC 1.8 and 2.2s are actually the only motors which I use a proper cam holder on, as they don't have anywhere on the cam to grab with a wrench. Edited March 30, 2009 by Gloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 I had already gotten into the habit with EA82 motors. You don't have to leave them off til after the belt. You just need to leave them off until you bolt the inner belt covers, and the pulleys back on. You can then install the valve covers, and just use a 17mm on the pulley bolts to turn the pulleys for belt installation. SOHC 1.8 and 2.2s are actually the only motors which I use a proper cam holder on, as they don't have anywhere on the cam to grab with a wrench. The valve covers are gonna be off for awhile on my playtoy anyway, as i plan to have them powdercoated, if i can find someone around here reliable to do it. While im waiting for them to come back, im gonna put the new head gaskets, thermostat and gaskets, new cam seals and new front main seal in, and then after all that is done, it will probably sit on the stand awhile while im waiting on the other parts to come back. My playtoy doesnt need a new water pump or timing belt, as they were done about a month and a half ago at subaru. Too bad the head gaskets didnt go until after i had the other work done, but that is just my luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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