Need Advice on repair

[98LegacyL]

Hello,

I have read these forums for a long time and need advice regarding my 98 Legacy L. It has the 2.2L engine with about 174K miles on it. Recently, the harmonic balancer (crankshaft pulley) went bad and I had a friend (also a mechanic) help replace it. When he took it off the pulley, the part underneath had been damaged. I do not know the name of the part, but it has the key that the pulley bolts up to. I have not replaced the timing belts since I have owned the car, purchased with 100K miles, and I am not sure if all the items he is recommending should be changed.

 

Can you let me know what items need to be changed when the timing cover is removed?

 

The car has been running fine up until the pulley went bad and I only drove it about 20 miles to get home. I apprecate any advice that you can give.

[kudd]

I've had pulleys come loose from poor tightening after t-belt job...too many times before I realized what was going on. The key has gotten trashed, but not the key way luckily. Unless I'm more confused than I think I am, the key way would be the crank shaft and a rather major deal to replace. If it's just the key you can get a new one and insert with the new pulley. Then tighten with a pin tool or chain wrench or something. Be careful if you use thread locker because too much can goob up the pulley and make it hard to get off next time.

 

Yeah.... I make a whole lot of mistakes, and I'm living proof that education costs money!

[uniberp]

Avoid driving it until this issue is addressed.

 

There are many thread on the pulley problem. It is fairly common. It can usually be fixed. I fixed mine. The problem gets serious when the tip of the crankshaft gets severely worn by the wobbling pulley. Even somewhat worn crankshaft tips can work fine.

 

The problem is caused by the center bolt coming loose and allowing the pulley to shake, and that damages the crank.

 

First, undo the bolt and remove the pulley and inspect. The pulley drives AC alternator and PS pump. Loosen belts and remove.

 

Depending on the condition of pulley and crank and keyway, you may be able to repair it by:

a) bolting it back together securely with locktite.

removing broken key, clean up keyway, replacing key, replacing pulley, bolting it tight.

c) replacing pulley (i used aftermarket lightweight aluminum), replacing key.

 

The trick is that the Pulley must sit flat on the end of the crank. The bolt pressure is usually enough to hold it. If it is not flat and concentric, it will wobble and cause the problem all over again.

 

Also, 105,000 miles is recommended replacement of timing belt. I would also replace the belt to avoid doing it again in 25K. If car is worth keeping, rustwise, I would replace all the timing pulleys, tensioner, and waterpump while in there. Kits are avilable on ebay.

 

It really only requires time patience, a place to keep it while working, and a good torque wrench.

 

Pics of the crank end (with pulley removed) will help the experts here tell you the best solution.

 

Good luck. Many of us have been there.

Edited April 9, 2009 by uniberp

[davebugs]

My favorite question - where in the He11 is Pittsfield?? If you post a better location you may get an offer of help.

 

The harmonic balancers coming loose is common when TB's, WP's etc are done by folks who don't know Suby's.

 

It's why I chose to have wrenches made to hold them tight when torqueing the crank bolt, I also use permatex red on the back of the harmonic balancer - can't hurt.

 

Some of us have good used harmonic balancers, some tools, and may be able to offer some assistance - especially if we knew where you were.

 

Don't run the car like this. You don't want any (or anymore) crankshaft damage now that you know what's going on.

[98LegacyL]

Thanks for the advice. Unforunately, I am a work and the car is at the friend's shop, so I can provide pics of the damage. I stopped driving the car once the problem became noticable. From what I saw of the damaged key, it looked as if only the key was smushed.

 

I believe the car is in good shape, no major rust and only a couple dents in the body. This is first major repair to the car in the 5+ years of owning it. So fixing it is a reasonable option and a new car is not. Thanks again.

 

Pittfield is in Western MA near Albany, NY.

[davebugs]

You may wanna update your profile to better reflect where you are. Not just you a lot of folks have a town in there that means nothing to most of us.

 

There is a Pittsfield PA and I was gonna offer my tool to hold the harmonic balancer, and had used harmonic balancers if necessary.

 

I wish you well. Perhaps it was caught in time.

[uniberp]

If it's an auto, the simple way to lock the crank is to remove the rubber inspection port plug above teh flywheel, under the intake manifold, and stick a wrench in there to jam the flywheel, while you torque down the crank bolt.

If it's stick, I suppose you can just lock it in gear with the e-brake on.

 

You may wanna update your profile to better reflect where you are. Not just you a lot of folks have a town in there that means nothing to most of us.

 

There is a Pittsfield PA and I was gonna offer my tool to hold the harmonic balancer, and had used harmonic balancers if necessary.

 

I wish you well. Perhaps it was caught in time.

[88whitecat]

@98 Now see I'm in west springfield, a stones throw from you (though I gotta say the only time I go into pittsfield is to grab lunch at Teo's) and I can think of at least 6 other active members in the general are of western mass/northern CT.

 

@dave To be fair, in the user cp there is a drop down menu for state that you have to select when you sign up. Before the board got hacked and went down causing the change in theme, the state was displayed for everyone. Now it dispays only if you add it with the city on that type in field.

[davebugs]

If it's an auto, the simple way to lock the crank is to remove the rubber inspection port plug above teh flywheel, under the intake manifold, and stick a wrench in there to jam the flywheel, while you torque down the crank bolt.

If it's stick, I suppose you can just lock it in gear with the e-brake on.

 

 

Still - nothing beats the correct tool for the job. Especially when it's been botched before.

 

I used to do it that way mostly when the engine was on the stand. Then I priced the factory tool, decided to have one made instead. Personally I feel much better now. I have one for 2'2.s (and early 2.5's) and later 2.5's.

 

I just think a much better job is done when the crank bolt socket is literally coming through the middle of the tool holding the harmonic balancer from turning. You have both handles side by side and it's much easier to torque.

 

Anyways - doesn't matter - he's too far away. But I'd still highly recommend buying, borrowing, renting the appropriate tool. If it happens again to this same engine I doubt he'll be as fortunate(lucky).

[idosubaru]

replace your timing belt with this job. get an Ebay kit to be exact. your 1998 is an interference engine, if the belt breaks or a pulley goes bad you're going to have extensive internal engine damage (more than you probably want to put in this car to fix).

 

as for the crank pulley. typically, a good mechanic can fix this really easily. if they are damaged replace the two sprockets on the crank shaft. if the pulley is damaged, replace it. if the crank itself is damaged, usually can get the pulley (the original or a new/used one) to fit just fine. some filing to make it fit will work.

 

if the keyway is not present, CRANK THE CRAP OUT OF IT, and it's not coming off. i use a socket and a 2 foot pipe over the handle to get it so tight it can't come off.

 

not ideal, but it works if you know what you're doing and have some mechanical aptitude.

[98LegacyL]

I want to thank all of you for your comments and suggestions. I am going to have the timing belt changed as recommended because it probably needs it. I am also going to the cam seals replaced as there is some oil leaking. The cheapest part of the items, the keyway, was the difficult piece to find and I hope to have the car back on the road this week.