monstaru Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 your so full of ************.you won't crush that car.:rolleyes:cheers, hawk I have 3 alts..one of which is a rebuilt never used and they have been tested... but whatever..I am done... forget it ..its going to the crusher..seems no one is really reading what I am saying..anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 your so full of ************.you won't crush that car.:rolleyes:cheers, hawk watch me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Could the post on the starter that the batt cable bolts to be shorted out to the case? Sometimes tightening and loosening that nut on the post will crack the insulation around the post where it goes through the case. I am just trying to think of things that would have been disturbed in an engine swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Could the post on the starter that the batt cable bolts to be shorted out to the case? Sometimes tightening and loosening that nut on the post will crack the insulation around the post where it goes through the case. I am just trying to think of things that would have been disturbed in an engine swap. Sorry a short like that would blow a fuse or fusible link and that isn't what's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 alternator must not be grounded correctly if it draws when you plug it in.Alternator is grounded correctly as soon as you bolt it to the engine. Besides a poor or open ground causes an open circuit and would not lead to draining the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I have 3 alts..one of which is a rebuilt never used and they have been tested... but whatever..I am done... forget it ..its going to the crusher..seems no one is really reading what I am saying..anyway.Connie, my suspicion is that a pinched or reversed wire somewhere in the alternator circuit is causing an internal failure in each alternator you installed. I would more believe you have three faulty alternators than one bad motor. You've made some good measurements that point to the alternator circuit and disconnecting the white plug from the alternator appears to stop the drain on the battery. I think you're pretty close to solving this if you wish to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Sorry a short like that would blow a fuse or fusible link and that isn't what's happening. No, it won't. There is no fuse or fusible link between the battery and starter. It is the only cicuit on the car that is not fused. And, the wire is a large enough gauge, that it COULD conduct the current, and absorb it as heat without melting. Esescially if the *short* was very slight and current was traveling through alot of corrosion at the post tot he starter case. IT CAN HAPPEN, without fuses blowing or wires melting (well, eventually they will melt, but can be weeks, months.....???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 No, it won't. There is no fuse or fusible link between the battery and starter. It is the only cicuit on the car that is not fused. And, the wire is a large enough gauge, that it COULD conduct the current, and absorb it as heat without melting. Esescially if the *short* was very slight and current was traveling through alot of corrosion at the post tot he starter case. IT CAN HAPPEN, without fuses blowing or wires melting (well, eventually they will melt, but can be weeks, months.....???) Sorry I mis-read your post; I was thinking of the alternator +BAT terminal and not the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Connie, Hold off on the crusher. Edrach and I have been conversing back and forth about this and think we have the problem figured out now. Ed seemed to recall in one of your earlier posts that you stated that the wires going to the back side of the alternator may have gotten reversed. So before you send it off reverse the two wires going to the plug and see what happens. Having the wires reversed makes perfect sense for this problem to happen. One of the wires ties to the battery and is hot at all times. The other wire is switched power through the ignition switch and charge warning lamp. So if the hot wire gets tied to the other field wire position of the alternator the rotor will be energized and draw several amps. Normally that won't happen until the ignition switch is turned on. This is what made us think the alternators were bad. We were not aware that really the wiring to the alternator could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 already reversed them with no change...so I put them back. That was suggested in an earlier post.I put the pig tail on right after I bought the car before ever blowing the original head gasket. Didnt have a problem with it with the original alt ..nor the XT6 alt when it was in the old motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well then I only have one more thing for you to do. I would like you to see if the field lead has a problem on it. I think this is the small white/red wire going to the back of the alternator. Here is the test: First connect all the wires back up like they should be normally. Then turn the ignition switch to the ON position without the engine running. Then use your voltmeter to measure the voltages with respect to ground on the two wires going to the back side of the alternator and tell me what the voltage is at each of the two wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 already reversed them with no change...so I put them back. That was suggested in an earlier post.I put the pig tail on right after I bought the car before ever blowing the original head gasket. Didnt have a problem with it with the original alt ..nor the XT6 alt when it was in the old motor.Connie, just to be sure the wires are in the correct position. The connector is shaped like a "T". The top of the T should have the fatter of the two wires and it should have white insulation on it. The stem part of the T should be the thinner of the two wires and has white insulation with a red stripe winding around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 If you should finally throw your hands up in the air, before you take it to the crusher, there are a few parts that I would like off the car (if it weren't so far away, I'd come and get the whole car). PM me if it comes to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 do you have full coverage insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 do you have full coverage insurance? The car isnt even registered...its been sitting for nearly a year. FYI... the voltage on the top wire ( the thicker gauge) per cougars instructions reads at 11.45v with key on...bottom wire ( smaller gauge white with red stripe) reads at 0v. And for SNG..with key off and connector unplugged..upper wire reads at 12.63v..bottom at 0v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) The car isnt even registered...its been sitting for nearly a year. FYI... the voltage on the top wire ( the thicker gauge) per cougars instructions reads at 11.45v with key on...bottom wire ( smaller gauge white with red stripe) reads at 0v. And for SNG..with key off and connector unplugged..upper wire reads at 12.63v..bottom at 0v. Those are the correct voltages for the connector off and the ignition off. Leave the connector off and measure the voltages with the ignition on (upper one should still be 12.63 and lower one will change (my Brat reads 11.7V there with the ignition on). Some final resistance tests to do: Using one of the higher resistance ranges of the voltmeter. Turn off the ignition. Unplug the T connector on the alternator and measure the resistance of each pin against ground; put the black lead from the voltmeter on the negative terminal of the battery and use the red lead on each of the internal pins of the T connector. Let me know what you get. Lastly, again still with the ignition off, measure the resistance of each pin inside the white T receptacle of the alternator against the battery's negative terminal. If this doesn't yield a significant result, I'll be giving up also. Thanks for your patience and perseverance Connie. Edited May 1, 2009 by edrach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 with plug undone and ign on...12.53v top still getting 0v from the bottom as for the resistance..with it unplugged I am getting 1.0 on both leads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 with plug undone and ign on...12.53v top still getting 0v from the bottom as for the resistance..with it unplugged I am getting 1.0 on both leads Interesting, should have 11V or so on the bottem pin of the T connector. High resistance is correct for both pins of the T connector. How about the two pins in the alternator with the T connector unplugged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I agree Ed, the bottom wire should have some voltage on it when the ignition switch is ON. It would be interesting to know if the charge warning light comes on when the ignition is turned on since that wire is tied to the light. I thought some back feeding may be going on to that wire but Connie stated that the wire was showing a high resistance. Something is not right on that wire at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 wont know if the charge light comes on because the whole dash area looks like spaghetti and I dont have the digi in...and wont put it in until the electrical is fixed. And ..oon a side note....there hasnt been a dash in the car for 8 months and it ran and drove fine before...no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Connie, I can't argue with the fact that the dash isn't there and that might account for the zero volts you found when you measured the lower wire. My understanding is that it goes to the charge lamp in the dash. I checked my '84 Brat this evening and it came up with 11.4V also. If the dash is not installed, I can see that happening. However, if the wire that goes to the charge lamp goes elsewhere (not ground since you measured open circuit), that might be the cause of your drain problem. What range of resistance were you using when you measured that resistance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Well unless the current drain is passing through the 'S' lead and the alternator regulator circuit I can't explain it. Since the 'L' lead appears to be a fairly high resistance at least it doesn't appear the leak is going back that way. That only leaves the 'S' lead to ground and a good alternator should not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Well unless the current drain is passing through the 'S' lead and the alternator regulator circuit I can't explain it. Since the 'L' lead appears to be a fairly high resistance at least it doesn't appear the leak is going back that way. That only leaves the 'S' lead to ground and a good alternator should not be a problem.Well, so far we haven't checked resistance to ground of the S (and L just for SNG) terminals in the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Not messin with it any this weekend..going down to NJ to help Neo fix his Lego...I will most likely be stripping it after Carlisle and sending it to the crusher if no results. Been too much of a headache. $3500 into the dang thing and still have nothing to show..once again...another coupe I never got to enjoy. Not dumping any more money into it. I will never even see 1/16 of what I have in it back out. Tired of throwing $$$ away. Just 2 weekends ago I dumped another $100 into it for a new muffler and exhaust gaskets. My list of new parts in it is ridiculous .... gasket reseal kit ( for old motor including head gaskets) oil pump, water pump,weber carb and intake, roller bearings and low air filter set up, 2 sets of intake minifold gaskets, 3 sets of exhaust maniford gaskets, front and rear struts front and rear fuel filters, tune up parts, brand spanking new radiator and hoses, mid pipe, brand new muffler, new drivers side mirror,new clutch kit,new flywheel, new digi dash, dash surround, XT6 alt, new motor, oem t stat, oem oil filter, oem rad cap,have a brand spanking new set of side badges for it, parts for the analog swap,new ign switch, 2 new batteries and new key set...and thats all I can remember right now. Not to mention the $800 to have this worthless POS shipped here. And I got to drive it to work twice..once to Carlisle...and around town maybe twice..been sitting for 10 months now useless. Edited May 2, 2009 by Bucky92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 c now me i would be to far into it to back out now. Ill trade ya guido. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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