Bucky92 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) And so starts a new day. I started unplugging more things and testing ..so far with no results.. But I founf this...its behind the coil..one end is attached to the coil ..the other was just hanging: Any ideas? would this be the Full Transistor Igniter?? and if so my FSM says the the other end should also be attached to the coil Edited April 15, 2009 by Bucky92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Make use of that FPM too. Should have exploded views that'll assist you. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I think it grounds to the block ..I found a page with all the ground straps. Between edrach and my FSM ..I am starting to understand this wire harness somewhat.. I think if I can actually find this problem I will know that dang harness like the back of my hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Thing circled looks like a condenser. Old style distributors with points required them and I think they were also used to suppress radio static. Don't know if your Subaru came originally with a points distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Yes, looks like a condensor; John in KY is right about it and it's normal use. Where are we in checking the drain issue? Last I remember, when you disconnected the alternator wiring, the meter went from .003 to 1.00. I don't have quite as much time this morning but should be able to spend some time during breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Someone called me a quitter the other day..and I think they are right..I just unplugged everything..and as I did s I tested...and cant find anything...all the grounds are where they should be...everything is plugged like it should.. And ... I want to Quit.. and send it to the crusher.There isnt anything wrong. only time I get a change is when I unplug the alt and I have swapped alts..and quadrupedal checked the wires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Someone called me a quitter the other day..and I think they are right..I just unplugged everything..and as I did s I tested...and cant find anything...all the grounds are where they should be...everything is plugged like it should.. And ... I want to Quit.. and send it to the crusher.There isnt anything wrong. only time I get a change is when I unplug the alt and I have swapped alts..and quadrupedal checked the wiresYou aren't a quitter. Yesterday certainly proved it (not counting the days and weeks prior to that). Connie, which wire from the alternator causes the drain (.003)? That's the one you should visually check from the alternator end back as far as you can see. Look for a pinched wire, worn or frayed insulation, anything that would ground out and cause this problem. Don't worry about the alternator, you've already checked it and it doesn't appear to be the cause of the drain. Swapping it out before didn't help and it won't help now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 You aren't a quitter. Yesterday certainly proved it (not counting the days and weeks prior to that). Connie, which wire from the alternator causes the drain (.003)? That's the one you should visually check from the alternator end back as far as you can see. Look for a pinched wire, worn or frayed insulation, anything that would ground out and cause this problem. Don't worry about the alternator, you've already checked it and it doesn't appear to be the cause of the drain. Swapping it out before didn't help and it won't help now. Its the white connector...plugged into the alt ..bad reading ....unplugged it get a good reading...I have checked the wires back to the harness and seperated them..no change..bad reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Its the white connector...plugged into the alt ..bad reading ....unplugged it get a good reading...I have checked the wires back to the harness and seperated them..no change..bad reading.There's two wires, one is white and the other has some red in it. They go into that connector shaped like a T. Which wire is in the top of the T and which is in the stem of the T? I'm wondering if at some time they didn't get switched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 it had a new pigtail spliced on right after I got the car...but I swapped the wires around anyway..no change..its hopeless...going to send it to the scrap yard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hey Connie.... I JUST remembered something. When we were putting your engine together, and specifically when we were wiring the alternator... I remember there being an INSULATING washer (grommet) around the positive post where the heavy wire bolts to the back of the alternator. If that got lost, dropped, left out... whatever... wouldnt that create a short to ground? Check the post. Id be willing to bet thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Have you tried unplugging the main harness itself and checking the reading? Since you have pulled all the fuses and you still get draw, I would start pulling the wiring harness out and checking it. A good visual once over (or twice over) would let you see if there are any breaks in the insulation. That may be what is causing the jump over to the alt plug. I would try getting another wiring harness and plugging it in. Also (I'm sure you've done this already but I have to ask) have you gone over the entire engine bay looking for any open plugs or broken connectors? And I would recommend that you unplug things (ie the disty) while having someone check the resistance on the battery terminals (not the posts.) Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Hey Connie.... I JUST remembered something. When we were putting your engine together, and specifically when we were wiring the alternator... I remember there being an INSULATING washer (grommet) around the positive post where the heavy wire bolts to the back of the alternator. If that got lost, dropped, left out... whatever... wouldnt that create a short to ground? Check the post. Id be willing to bet thats it. You are correct about the insulating washer Backwoodsboy but also remember that the main output wire is always hot to the battery. Sparks would have flown as soon as that wire was connected if that washer was missing. The connection is protected by one of the fusible links in case something like that happens. Connie, In post 57 you stated that the .003 reading was taken on the middle red fusible link connection. With the alternator disconnected, does that reading now show 1.00 (which means over the range limit BTW) ? If it does then something is going on inside the alternator. You also talked about the ignition not shutting the engine down normally like it should. You do indeed have a problem there and it may not have anything to do with the battery drain trouble, but it might. It sounds to me that the ignition switch is turning off the fuel pump but not the ignition system. You turn the ignition OFF and the fuel then runs out and that kills the engine. Now if the ignition is still tied to power this could be where the drain is coming from. One simple thing you could do to see if that is true is measure the voltage on the plus side of the ignition coil while everything is connected like it should be and a good charge on the battery and the ignition switch is OFF. If you have voltage on that wire you have to fix the ignition wiring. It's not connected properly. If that is the case, Edrach has the drawings and can lead you through any rough spots if you have them. Edited April 15, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Have the radiator fan(s) been re-wired to be "always on"? Could be source of drain, could be cause of run-on of engine after key is turned off. I have seen the latter of that happen a few times. Spinning fan motor acts like a generator, putting power into the system until it spins down. A coil will produce spark with less than 6 volts, so it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Have the radiator fan(s) been re-wired to be "always on"? Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Just a comment here about all the suggestions: The drain stops when the center fusible link is pulled. That link is before all the fuses in the fuse box. The only items that are fed by that fusible link without going through a separate fuse are the alternator and ignition switch.....unless someone added wiring to that circuit in the past that isn't shown in the FSM. This is a difficult source to find: if it were a solid short to ground it would have blown the fusible link. Somehow the short is going through some other accessory that limits the parasitic drain to about (this is a guess on my part based on the fact that it drains a fully charged battery overnight) 6 to 10 amps. Based on what Connie has measured, my bet is on something in the alternator wiring/area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Oh CRAP! I forgot about this... When we put the new motor in, the fan was NOT kicking on as it should be... and we DID wire the cooling fan to the hot side of the ign coil. I thought that that powered down with the ign though?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 something has to be wired to Hot, positive terminal all the time when it shouldn't be. Could be radio, guages, lights, anything. Whatever it is, needs to be wired to switched power/ignition on power, not the hot all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 I pulled the ign switch again...but this time from the cylinder end...I found that the new cylinder doesnt allow the switch to go the whole way into the off position. Thought this was the problem ..but when retested..it still was reading .000 now. I think I am done for the day with it..too tired and frustrated right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Ok Connie, take a break. When you are rested come on back and be ready to do some hunting. The Cat did some tracking on this and is ready to pounce. Here is the results of what my info says. The red fusible link that you pulled out ties to the alternator and to fuse 3 in the dash on the white wire you mentioned. That fusible link you pulled out is the one that I mentioned in my last post. Part of its job is to protect the alternator circuit. The white wire not only goes to the back side of the alternator but it also ties to the main output wire of the alternator. Just like Edrach has been saying, the problem may be with the alternator and a blocking diode may be shorted inside the alternator. There is a simple thing that you can do to see if this is the case. Remove the fusible link you saw the low resistance on and set up your meter again to read the resistance like you did before. You should see the low reading again on you meter. Remove the large white wire going to the alternator and make sure the free end doesn't touch anything (Normally that wire is always hot to the battery so a short to ground would not be good. You have removed the fusible link connection to the battery though so it should not be tied to the battery now. Just a heads up for the future). Now hopefully your meter is now reading 1.00. Which means the resistance has exceeded the range scale you are using (a good thing). If that is the case then you have caught the gremlin and the hunt is over. You will need to replace the alternator. If the reading stays at the same low resistance reading then pull fuse 3 in the fuse panel and tell us what you read on your meter then. If it goes high, then the trouble is down the line through that fuse. Edited April 16, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 I have already replaced the Alt ...3 times .. so far ... what are the chances of all three being bad in the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Well I see your point Connie and would have to agree with you that by doing that it would be very unlikely to have 3 alternators fail the same way. Darn!! I thought we had the trouble pinned down. According to my data there is only two ways that white wire goes so when you are ready set up your meter again and then pull fuse 3 in the fuse panel and see if the meter goes high then. That is the other path the wire ties to. EDIT: I did some more thinking about this since I wrote the above post and after thinking again about what you said about the meter readings and the alternator I now think we may have to look into them some more. Here is why. When you disconnected the small connector to the back side of the alternator you stated the reading went high (1.00), indicating no problem. The other part of path that goes to fuse 3, that I wanted to test, should have still been connected to the meter when you disconnected the lead to the alternator. So if the trouble was on the fused leg of the wiring the meter reading should not have gone high, it should have stayed low. That should mean the bad path is not on the fused leg. If you would Connie here is what I would like you to do. First, set your meter scale to the 2k ohm scale instead of the 2M ohm scale. This will give us a better reading to what we are looking for. Remove the red fusible link you saw the low reading on, hook up the meter the same way you had it before and verify the low reading is still there (I am assuming that all the alternator connections are in place. If not, put them back on). Then remove the large main alternator output lead, don't let it touch anything, and see if the reading goes high. Report your results to us. That is all I need you to do until you report the results. (If you need to, print out the instuctions so you will have them to refer to for the testing) Edited April 16, 2009 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhelme Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Bucky I love your coupe and hope you find out what the draw is and keep it. Because of something I ran into on my brat I am going to make a suggestion. Backwoodsboy said he wired your fan to the + side of your coil. Disconnect it and retest the draw. If he connected the wrong one from the relay that would explain the runon after shutting off the key. I had this happen on my brat when I was charging a jumper pack and left it plugged in and turned off the car. The pack provided power back through the system and it still ran for a second or two after the key was off. You may not be looking for a short but may be powering the system after shut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Connie, I'm going to have to step back on this for the weekend. I've got too much going today and during the weekend to follow-up on this for now. Don't give up; there are others out there who can persue this with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Its ok ..I am not going to be home this weekend anyway..going to hang with njdrsubaru and go bike riding on the beach...a good step away before I beat it with a sledgehammer weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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