njdrsubaru Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 ... my abs pump decides to go on on dry pavement when coming to a stop, now, i already cleaned all the sensors, checked all the connections and still doing it... every once in awhile the abs light comes on after it acts up... i've checked all the sensors and they are all working... could it be the ABS computer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Probably need to rebleed the brakes, and you need to do it per proper sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 brakes were bleed but not in that sequence... i'll try that tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Two questions. Are all the tone rings in one peice. Secondly are all the sensors a perfect cylindrical shape at thier faces? They can not have any erosion otherwise they get confused and can throw a light or activate the ABS. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 do some searching here, there are instructions here and links to some great endwrench site. i spent a few minutes reading through those and read my ABS code myself and fixed it. i'd start by trying to get that code pulled, that's going to really narrow it down for you. all your tires match? no check engine lights? any recent accidents, work or stressful situations? +1 to nippers vote - make sure you know what a "good" sensor should look like and make sure yours looks like that. they can get eroded and need replaced. there was also an ABS recall on some 90's legacy's i think, but i think it was just a bad fuse or relay and caused different problems. but my memory is vague so you might want to look into that. i have a 1997 Legacy parts car if you need parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 any recent accidents, work or stressful situations? . Does that count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 ^ I was thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 yep, i kind of figured that from you, i didn't use the word "stressful" randomly! i wasn't expecting pictures but am pleasantly surprised. i would suspect a sensor is toast if it's intermittent. if it's on all the time then a tone ring could be cracked. i would guess one of those two things though, they're the items getting submerged and experience shock...in lots of ways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 i already cleaned all the sensors, checked all the connections... i've checked all the sensors and they are all working... addding to it i cleaned them all and inspected, changed 2 sensors due to wiring corrosion, tone rings are intact and clean.... Niper: there is no mud left in my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 all your tires match? YES off course no check engine lights? MO i am really picky about CELs any recent accidents, work or stressful situations? HMMMM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 First, determine which ABS system you have (ABS-2E ?): http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf . Then (as has already been suggested), next time the light come on read any codes: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ABS.pdf . That should get you looking in the right area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 mine is the ABS 2E by nippon now these pdfs dont have a code chart, where do i find that? thanks OB99W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 addding to it i cleaned them all and inspected, changed 2 sensors due to wiring corrosion, tone rings are intact and clean.... Niper: there is no mud left in my car Didnt say there was any mud in the car, just that mud is very abresive, like a very fine wet sanndpper which can damage sensors. You say you replaced 2 due to wiring issues, but you really need to look at the faces and make sure they are cylindrical in shape with nice sharp clean corners, otherwise the puter doesnt get a clean squarewave signal. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 if it was something related to the mud it would of happened long ago, i just happened this past weekend... and yes the sensors are in good order, like i said i even replaced two of them because of wiring issues and if the other ones were bad i would of replaced them too... now i am going to read the codes tonight and see what do I have... does anyone have a code chart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 does anyone have a code chart? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Look at post #5 of the following for info on using the ABS-2E diagnostic connector: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=84715 Once you've read the code(s), post them here and we'll determine what they mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 ok i dont have that diagnostic port by the fuse box i just spend 30 mnts looking for it, took thw trim off and the knee booster off too, couldnt find anything... where else would the diagnostic port be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 ok i dont have that diagnostic port by the fuse box i just spend 30 mnts looking for it, took thw trim off and the knee booster off too, couldnt find anything... where else would the diagnostic port be Especially if it hasn't been used before, the ABS diagnosis connector might be taped to other wiring, so check closely. If you have the later arrangement, it might be a 6-pin (usually black) connector that's often taped up to the harness under the dash, to the right of the steering column, along with two ''diagnosis terminals'' (grounding probes). See: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=668884 If so, with the ignition switch OFF, insert a ''diagnosis terminal'' into pin location #6 of the connector. Then turn the ignition switch ON (don't start the engine) -- that should get you the ABS blink codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 alright i have code 11 one long blink and one short blink... siiiiiigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I found this and thought it might be useful: From the subaru book: Connector layout, looking from the terminal side (not the wire side) x x 3 x x 6 where x are the other terminals not related to this tests. Procedure: 1. Take out the green diagnostics connector from the side of the driver's seat heater unit (under the dash board) 2. Ignition switch to off 3. Connect one of the two (either one) black pigtails to diagnosis connector position 6. 4. Turn ignition on 5. Abs light is in the diagnostic mode and blinks to identify trouble code. 6. After the start code 11 is shown, the trouble codes will be shown in order of the last information first. The codes will repeat for a max of 5 minutes. If no problem is found, only code 11 will be shown. After ready trouble code, disconnect black pigtail from position nr. 6 and repeat 3 times within 12 seconds, connecting and disconnecting. Trouble code list: Code Indicates None: Problem in light drive circuit. Light has to come on for 1.5 secs after ignition is on. Light On: Same as above 11: Start Code 21 FR wheel sensor open circuit or input voltage too high 23 FL 25 RR 27 RL 22 FR wheel sensor when no open circuit or speed signal input 24 FL 26 RR 28 RL 29 Faulty tone wheel 31 FR Faulty solenoid valve circuit in hydraulic unit 33 FL 39 Rear wheels 41 Faulty ABS control module 42 Source voltage is low 51 Faulty valve relay 52 Faulty Hydraulic Motor and or motor relay 54 Faulty Stop Light circuit 56 Wrong control module used or faulty G Sensor Codes are formed by long ABS light on times (1.2 secs) for the tens and short on times (0.3 sec) for the units. There is a one second pause between codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Rebleed your brakes jesus you guys get so repetitive in your replies...... My car did the exact same thing turned out it was because I did not bleed the brakes properly. Also same code just the long blinks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 got the ABS light to come on, its code 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Rebleed your brakes jesus you guys get so repetitive in your replies...... My car did the exact same thing turned out it was because I did not bleed the brakes properly. Also same code just the long blinks.... i already bleed the brakes twice and the bleeding schematic u posted isnt the right one, FSM says front wheel first and then rears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdrsubaru Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 "22 FR wheel sensor when no open circuit or speed signal input" is this telling me that the sensor i just replaced is bad too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 ''22 FR wheel sensor when no open circuit or speed signal input'' is this telling me that the sensor i just replaced is bad too? The sensor itself isn't necessarily causing the problem. A severe enough electrical problem with the FR sensor (bad connection, open/shorted coil, etc.) would usually result in code 21. Code 22, ''Abnormal ABS sensor signal - FR'', is more likely due to a weak/noisy or varying signal. Assuming that you replaced the sensor with a new one, the condition of its pole piece tip shouldn't be an issue, and its coil should be okay. Since you've apparently already checked for certain obvious problems (connections, dirt, etc.), I'll suggest some others. There could be a problem with the sensor gap (spacing between the sensor tip and tone wheel). The gap has to be within certain limits, and not vary too much as the wheel turns -- since the front left side seems to be okay, compare the right side to that. One possible cause is the sensor not being fully seated (due to rust, etc.). Another is damage to the tone wheel (a crack between teeth sometimes isn't easy to spot). If the hub has excessive runout, that could cause the gap (and therefore the signal) to vary too much as the wheel rotates. If you have access to an oscilloscope, one of the best ways to check wheel sensor operation is to look at its output while the wheel is turned at a relatively constant speed. That will reveal the signal level and whether there are significant variations. However, a 'scope isn't a necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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