Best Price on New/Remaned Axle? Alternative Removal Method?

[MorganM]

Blew a CV boot sometime this winter and the front right CV is clicking regularly now. Just getting some stuff lined up so I can replace it soon. Read over Edrach's article in the USRM; spot on as usuall.

 

I was thinking though; could you skip the whole camber bolt method and just undo the control arm from the front main crossmember (thats how I did it on my EA82s)? Thus giving me enough play to pull the DOJ off the tranny stub and then pound the axle stub out of the hub?

 

Also any good leads on well priced axles? Would prefer a reman'ed or new if the price is right. This is my daily driver so junkyard parts are a last resort. I don't mind using them on my toys and there are some good finds in there for reliable parts but I'd like to start by pricing some new and reman'ed ones =)

[idosubaru]

new/remann'ed axles suck. get Subaru or MWE.

 

there is no shortage of "i replaced my axles but there's still a clicking, juddering, shaking, vibrating, leaking" threads. you can search to find more info on how problematic axles are. if you're time is valuable i'd recommend not wasting it!

[MtTech]

I was thinking though; could you skip the whole camber bolt method and just undo the control arm from the front main crossmember (thats how I did it on my EA82s)? Thus giving me enough play to pull the DOJ off the tranny stub and then pound the axle stub out of the hub?

 

 

I'd undo the 14mm bolt on the bottom of the knuckle and pry out the ball joint. It's the least amount of fasteners and work in my opinion.

 

Remove wheel 19mm

Remove axle nut 32mm

Remove bolt on knuckle @ ball joint 14mm

Remove pin @ tranny 3/16

Pry ball joint out of knuckle

Pound out axle...

 

Again, stressing the aftermarket axle issue... spend the extra $$ for a Subaru or MWE axle. I can't tell you how often a tire shop up the road puts 'em in (aftermarket) and we take 'em out...

[Gloyale]

I'd undo the 14mm bolt on the bottom of the knuckle and pry out the ball joint. It's the least amount of fasteners and work in my opinion.

 

 

I recommend against this. Espescially in a rust belt car.

 

2 bad things can happen:

 

1. Pinch bolt breaks off. Then you are faced with a difficult removal.

 

2. The casting can crack from being pried open, and clamped too many times. I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN. Plus, wedging that knuckle apart and getting the ball joint to fall out is alot more work in the rust belt, and could be near impossible. I NEVER disturb that joint unless it is time to replace it, or the knuckle must come off for pressing a bearing or something.

 

 

 

I recommend removing the upper strut bolts. The bolts are big, 19mm, so they are less likely to break. And you can get an impact on them easily. Mark there position, or just try to line up the *shadow* of the original bolt position. If all else fails, set the camber as far negative as possible. It will give you good handling, and isn't drastic enough that it will cause tire wear.

[vwbuge1]

I live smack dab in the middle of the rust belt and I always do my axles this way. (undo ball joint at bottom of hub) Never had a problem.

 

 

 

I recommend against this. Espescially in a rust belt car.

 

2 bad things can happen:

 

1. Pinch bolt breaks off. Then you are faced with a difficult removal.

 

2. The casting can crack from being pried open, and clamped too many times. I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN. Plus, wedging that knuckle apart and getting the ball joint to fall out is alot more work in the rust belt, and could be near impossible. I NEVER disturb that joint unless it is time to replace it, or the knuckle must come off for pressing a bearing or something.

 

 

 

I recommend removing the upper strut bolts. The bolts are big, 19mm, so they are less likely to break. And you can get an impact on them easily. Mark there position, or just try to line up the *shadow* of the original bolt position. If all else fails, set the camber as far negative as possible. It will give you good handling, and isn't drastic enough that it will cause tire wear.

[porcupine73]

Hm yah I don't know how you are getting those pinch bolts loose then. I live in the rust belt too and all my soobs the pinch bolt is pretty much just rusted right as a unit to the bearing housing. I tried penetrating oil, heat, etc and they would not budge so I stopped before they snapped. If I do ever have to replace the ball joint I am going to have to drill them out.

[idosubaru]

I live smack dab in the middle of the rust belt and I always do my axles this way. (undo ball joint at bottom of hub) Never had a problem.

yeah, that's not normal.

 

i just broke one off a week or two ago. just like porcupine suggested, they're often just fused in with the hub.

 

and even after that, it's easy to damage the ball joint rubber boot trying to remove it as well. i was slamming a massive 6 foot 100 pound digging bar on a control arm the other day over and over again and the ball joint wouldn't come out. had to use the pickle fork which is easy to tear the boot with.

[Gloyale]

I live smack dab in the middle of the rust belt and I always do my axles this way. (undo ball joint at bottom of hub) Never had a problem.

 

 

How often does your *always* include? A couple on you're own car?

 

Hope you're luck holds.

 

Breaking the bolt is the easy one. At least then you have a chance at salvaging your hub/knuckle. Now, when you have a casting crack and break as you reassemble, that is when it get's really fun.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Gloyale

[Legacy777]

new/remann'ed axles suck. get Subaru or MWE.

 

there is no shortage of "i replaced my axles but there's still a clicking, juddering, shaking, vibrating, leaking" threads. you can search to find more info on how problematic axles are. if you're time is valuable i'd recommend not wasting it!

 

 

Gary,

 

What makes MWE's axles so good? I've seen some comments that they seem to be the "best", but haven't really looked into the details.

 

I've used http://www.cvaxles.com in the past with good success, and they used to be the ones everyone seemed to plug....so just curious why the torch has passed to MWE.

 

Thanks

[MorganM]

Yeah I can tell you I'm not messing with the ball joint. What a nightmare those are here in the rust belt. I have a pickle fork and the BFH to do it; but if I'm gonna go that far I might as well replace the ball joints which I'm not messing with right now =P

 

I'm dig'n the idea of the top strut bolts. I don't want to necessarily mess with camber bolts; my luck I'll hose it up and be screwed.

[Gloyale]

Yeah I can tell you I'm not messing with the ball joint. What a nightmare those are here in the rust belt. I have a pickle fork and the BFH to do it; but if I'm gonna go that far I might as well replace the ball joints which I'm not messing with right now =P

 

I'm dig'n the idea of the top strut bolts. I don't want to necessarily mess with camber bolts; my luck I'll hose it up and be screwed.

 

The camber adjustment is so slight, you can't really screw it up. Absolute worst case will be slightly more tire wear. In all likelyhood, you won't notice any problem.

 

Set the camber as far negative you can, and you will be fine.

[Legacy777]

When I do the axles, I'll typically remove the front bolt holding the lower A-arm to the sub-frame. With the removal of that bolt along with the anti-sway bar endlinks, it usually gives you enough room to get the axle out.

[idosubaru]

Gary,

 

What makes MWE's axles so good?

they don't fail.

 

just speculation but probably "economy of scale". warranty covers looser rebuild spec's in the larger aftermarket suppliers. marshall of MWE has been doing this for decades and runs his own shop, personally i'd rather support him anyway, but that's just personal preference.

 

i think i've seen some bad axle experiences from the cvaxle place, but I can't keep them all straight. with MWE and Subaru being sure shots I personally have no reason to try anything else.

 

it's just statistics and personal preference, they're not going to fail every time. i'm sure you can easily buy 5 or 10 good axles from nearly any place and not have a problem (hence all the anecdotal reponses). but 1 out of 20 or so is still a high fail rate and MWE/Subaru seems to have the best odds.

[idosubaru]

I'm dig'n the idea of the top strut bolts. I don't want to necessarily mess with camber bolts; my luck I'll hose it up and be screwed.

don't be intimidated by this. it's really easy. once you do it the first time you'll laugh at how simple it is.

 

there are two strut mount bolts that hold the strut to the hub assembly/spindle. the top bolt is the cambered bolt. mark the HEAD (not the nut, it's not relative to the camber). I place a chisel simultaneously on the HEAD of the bolt and the strut housing, then whack it with a hammer. Line those marks up when I reinstall.

 

Most EJ struts have a dial indicator on them even, so you could use that if you wanted, but i don't, i like the definitive chisel method.

 

It really is easy, you'll be fine. Makes axle jobs a walk in the park compared to any ball joint or other rust prone bolts. The strut bolts are rarely trouble (i've never had a problem).

[porcupine73]

Just mark it like this (the red)

[idosubaru]

man, i'd faint if i saw a strut mount that clean, woo!!

[porcupine73]

haha well that was only a few weeks after strut replacement when the boot gave way. Those struts are now a couple years old and have lots more rust on them, more like runny staining type rust color.

 

I like the MWE axles also, have not seen people complain about those not working, or vibrating or exploding, or other such issues. I just ordered a couple more for the soobs. I have also tried the Subaru genuine reman which worked fine but at nearly twice the price of the MWE's. There might be others that work well too but with so many posts about issues it's hard to keep all the types and sources straight.

 

In my last quote from MWE, he showed the axles are available with a 'new cv joint' for $20 extra. Any thoughts on that?

[idosubaru]

In my last quote from MWE, he showed the axles are available with a 'new cv joint' for $20 extra. Any thoughts on that?

depends on your take on maintenance. $20 is cheap, but he's the expert so i'd let him make the call. his rebuilts are good, he doesn't cut corners. i think he puts new joints on XT6 axles though, or did on mine anyway.

[Legacy777]

Just mark it like this (the red)

 

There is still going to be some play in how things are adjusted even if you align that mark back up. I can't say by how much the alignment will be off, but if you want everything to be exact, you should get an alignment afterwards.

[Legacy777]

they don't fail.

 

just speculation but probably "economy of scale". warranty covers looser rebuild spec's in the larger aftermarket suppliers. marshall of MWE has been doing this for decades and runs his own shop, personally i'd rather support him anyway, but that's just personal preference.

 

i think i've seen some bad axle experiences from the cvaxle place, but I can't keep them all straight. with MWE and Subaru being sure shots I personally have no reason to try anything else.

 

it's just statistics and personal preference, they're not going to fail every time. i'm sure you can easily buy 5 or 10 good axles from nearly any place and not have a problem (hence all the anecdotal reponses). but 1 out of 20 or so is still a high fail rate and MWE/Subaru seems to have the best odds.

 

Thanks for the comments Gary.

[idosubaru]

There is still going to be some play in how things are adjusted even if you align that mark back up. I can't say by how much the alignment will be off, but if you want everything to be exact, you should get an alignment afterwards.

it won't need an alignment. you are right, replacing struts, springs, wheel/tire combo's will effect alignment, but it's minuscule. not counting the extremes - like shooting for a 5" lift!!!

 

someone recently mentioned...like just in the past week, that if that bolt is off by a bit it won't matter enough for the average driver to worry about. which is good to know since i'm not well versed in alignment/suspension stuff, though i've never experienced any tire wear/alignment issues.

 

years ago someone on another board that works in the tire business and does alignments spoke about them. in short he said they are rarely needed and essentially a waste of money, particularly to pay for every time you buy tires is silly.

 

since taking his advice i've never gotten an alignment in over a decade and have never experienced uneven tire wear. and this in cars that i've off roaded, wrecked, repaired, replaced all sorts of suspension and steering components on, 45,000+ miles in a year...and still no uneven tire wear. with Subaru's you have to rotate the tires fairly regularly anyway so unever wear should show up quickly.

 

i've replaced struts, control arms, ball joints, hubs, tie rods, power steering racks...all sorts of stuff that should "require" an alignment and i've never needed one yet.

 

well..until last year when i removed a bunch of stuff and forgot to mark that bolt! that was the first alignment i've paid for in a really long time.

 

if someone is anal (like dying to argue with advice above) or don't mind spending the money, and like the idea of being done with it and not worrying about it then it certainly doesn't hurt and is a good idea.

[Legacy777]

Gary,

 

It really depends on what you are shooting for. If you're just looking for an alignment that will not cause you premature tire wear. For the most part, I'd agree that a little movement shouldn't hurt things.

 

However, if you're looking for a "performance" type alignment, it does matter. If you've got one wheel that is out a 1/2 deg of camber from the other, it's going to change the handling dynamics of the car. It may or may not be a noticable difference. It depends too on how you drive the car.

 

We may be splitting hairs here, but I've watched them do alignments on my cars, and have felt a difference from before to after.

[porcupine73]

There is a little play on the camber bolt. I usually push the bearing housing up as I tighten the bolt back as that is how it would be if the wheel were on the ground when the bolt was tightened (i.e. on an alignment rack). If you have a fairly level garage floor or other surface, checking the camber with a short level against the wheel is pretty easy. I'd say that can be accurate to within 20 minutes (20/60 or 1/3 degree). I check my toe with the strings method. Once you have marked your steering wheel center doing the toe with the strings method is not very hard. Are these as accurate as the laser racks well maybe not, but I think some amateur racers use these methods at the track.

 

After doing it a few times you can check the camber and toe all the way around in just the time you would spend waiting at a shop to do it. If you have to make adjustments it takes longer because you have to back the car out then pull in again to let everything settle into place and then replace your strings.

Edited April 21, 2009 by porcupine73