MorganM Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I had a tick that turned to a tap that is now constant and loud. Rarely it will go away but always comes back. It's been like this for several days now. At first I thought it was typical Subaru lifter chatter so I Sea Foamed it and just did an oil change. I really don't think it's a lifter and here's why. Took out my trusty needle stethiscope to pinpoint the noise and could not find any source! You can use this to find out exactly which lifter is making the noise; it's a fairly precise tool. The entire valve train is quiet (even for a Subaru!). The block is quiet, tranny is quiet, and everywhere else I put the needle it was quiet. Loudest things I found were the fuel injectors but the sound didn't match. When I first start it up it's really loud then it quiets a bit after 1 second but still annoying. At 2500 + RPMs it's much quieter but still present. Every now and then it will go away. Best guesses thus far: Exhuast leak (would have to be very close to the head exhuast port to be this loud!) Torque converter Main or rod bearings (but I should hear that with the stethiscope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 piston slap or timing belt tensioner. what year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 '97 Imp OBS. I'd hear piston slap with the stehtiscope for sure. Tensioner pully is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 mileage? STart by removing the accessory drive belts. When was the last time the timing belt was changed and how many miles. Rod bearing, unplug plug wires one at a time, if its a rod it will change pitch. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 176,000 miles and I get about 25-26 MPG. She runs rich; I can smell it. Espeically on cold starts. No idea when the timing belt was changed; lets assume never =) I just bought it late last summer. If it were a rod bearing or even a main bearing; wouldn't I hear that with the stethiscope on the block? I put the stethiscope all over the block; top and bottom side and all I hear is perfectly smooth operation with out a hint of tick/tap/knock. I'll try the plug wire trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 No the wire trick is easier. Remove the drive belts asnd see if it is sitll there. 276,000 on a 2.2L shold be ok, but i thik this has a 60K timing belt interval . That would mean your coming up on its third timing belt, and i bet the tensioners and idlers have never been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Morgan - most likely it's the timing belt tensioner. They do exactly what you're saying. Ironically enough I just had this happen on my 1997 Impreza OBS about a month ago on the original tensioner. These newer style tensioner (what yours most likely has, but it could have the old style) - the newer ones actually aren't as reliable as the older style. INTERFERENCE ENGINE - i would fix this immediately, at least the belt needs to be replaced anyway (60,000 mile belt and yours could even be well over 10 years old). the ebay kits are the way to go, they have the entire tensioner, belt, and all new pulleys as well. i promise at least one, if not all of your pulleys are noisey and not smooth. definitely the toothed idler will be rough. replacing them all is the best bet and ebay is the only reasonably affordable way to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) I should stipulate that this engine is a long block out of a '95 Legacy. That means NON-Interference if I recall correctly; check? Man I really hope it's just the tensioner pullies. How do you verify this? I can't really take the timing belt off and see if it stops making the noise Just one of those 'replace it and hope it fixes the problem' deals? Ya know; so typical... I buy some cool stuff like rear discs to put on but nooooo.... something breaks and I gotta spend my time and money on that first =P Edited April 23, 2009 by MorganM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Remove the accessory drive belts start the car and if the noise is still there Next remove the timing belt covers. Use the spray lubricant of your choice (or even water). The noise will change for a very short period of time and then you will know. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Ah, gotcha... that's how I diagnosed the idler gear an old EA82! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 correct - 1995 is non interference. that also means it's the older (and better) style tensioner pulley. those ENTIRE kits are only $80 or so on ebay. that's for the belt, all new pulleys, and brand new tensioner. killer deal, i buy them all the time. remove the timing belt cover, just the drivers side. don't need to take anything else off, just a couple 10mm bolts. remove that and watch the belt while it's running. you should be able to see it flopping around. if not, remove the center cover as well and run it like that when it's apt (cold?) to make noise. again, you should see it flopping around. that's easy to do as well. if you want to go cheap, technically you only need the plunger, but i'd be replacing everything. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 same noise on the 97 outback 2.2 , the owner before , new resurfaced heads, hg, timing belt, water pump , pullies, drove it 200 miles and started to make noise in motor, i took drivers side timing belt cover off , timing belt new and ok, noise seems to come from around oil pump area, started it removered plug wire no difference in noise, noise gets louder if i rev the motor up , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) Tap-a-tap-tap... where it at ?_? Spent about 8 hours on it this weekend. Took off fans, belts, and wrestled with the rust-welded timing belt cover bolts. Finally got the left and right timing belt covers off (not the center one; wasn't in the mood to take the main crank pully off by then) Belts felt tight and I could not move the tensioners with my fingers. Started it up; belts still looked tight (no flopping) and I could watch the tensioner pullies; no bouncing. While it was up on jack stands and running with the tapping noise I went over everything with the stethiscope again... NOTHING. Everything is quiet and what little noise I do hear is way more quiet and different than the tapping noise. Thought maybe the flex plate on the torque converter was loose. So I rolled it over by hand and poked at the flex plate; seemed tight. None of the bolts holding it on were very loose. Put it all back together and drove it to work today. It comes and goes; sometimes it stops making the noise and then it starts again a few minutes later. The rate at which it taps (Taps Per Minute? =P) increases with RPMs and gets more quiet with more RPMs ... I'm at a loss :-\ Edited April 27, 2009 by MorganM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 can you tell at all where it's coming from in general? front/back/under/top/left/right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 I know what you mean and I wish I could tell but it's omnidirectional! That's why I busted out the stethiscope to narrow down where it's coming from which has proved futile. If I had to guess (and that's really what I'm doing =) I would say toward the back of the engine bay but centered. That's standing over the engine, from the front, while running with the tapping noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 i know you said rear, but maybe the oil pump backing plate bolts are loose? i've never heard or seen it, but i think i've heard others say that can cause noises if enough of those screws back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 Hmm... so I'll be taking off the main crank pulley for this one eh? Fun... Last EJ22 I did had a bad key; guess I'll find out on this one! Man if the oilpump is making that much noise it's gotta be getting chewed up bad.... ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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