98 Sub Outback 2.5 HG change

[98sub2500leg]

I have a 98 Sub Outback Limited 2.5L. Seem to have the HG problem as most others do. I am the original owner, the car has been intermittently overheating since the 60k mile service, and it now has 107k miles. If it ever got to 3/4 of full scale I would shut off the engine, after a few minutes restart-problem usually goes away. Slow buildup over time of oily sludge in the coolant reservoir. Lower rad hose not flowing, upper however runs normal, t-stat works fine. Even with this condition most of the time it runs at normal temperature (not sure how that can be). Coolant overflows out of the reservoir as I can see evidence around areas of the engine.

No coolant is evident in oil; the car doesn't burn oil either. Car runs great otherwise, great car, great engine. Hopefully don't have a cracked head (or worse micro crack that I won't be able to see). A warped head I can deal with.

 

This all started by the way after I sent the car to the dealer for the 60k mile service which include a coolant flush. After I got the car back, I started smelling coolant after I drove the car home from work, but never could find any drips. After 2month of that scenario it did its 1st overheat on the fwy. Had it towed to the dealer, they told me I was low on coolant, but needed a $2000 HG job with no explanation why. Took it to another reputable mechanic, he ran it for 45m then tested for hydrocarbons, found a trace but wasn't enough to reach a conclusion, so I have been driving it since 5+ yrs now (the overheat problem isn't too often). The coolant now has an exhaust smell. I believe the HG has eroded the HG and is leaking internally, building a pocket of exhaust gas near the t-stat and preventing it from opening. It’s possible the dealer may have not filled the radiator properly, which led to coolant loss, or an air pocket internally, which created a hot spot, which eroded the HG. I do realize this is happens on most of these cars anyway, but the coolant leak didn't start until right after I had got the car back from the service. It takes a while even with refilling the top hose directly and with the top radiator air lock screw removed to properly refill the coolant. Most would believe from reading all the internet posts that 60k miles for a HG on these cars wasn't abnormal, however, there is always a cause & effect for everything. I also could be wrong.

 

I now have the engine nearly ready to remove except for the last top tranny-eng bolt & bottom nuts. Do you have to remove the axel to access the driver’s side engine-trans. nut, or can you use a universal joint with an extension to remove it, or is there another way to access it without removing the axel? Will most likely need more advise on the way through the job. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[bgambino]

no need to touch the axle....just get a light down there andyour universal...it's the toughest connection to get acess to on the car

I have the same car 96 OB wagon....bought for 400 with the HG condition. This was my first big job on the newer style subs. I would think you have read this board enough that you are doing all the necessary things...seals, TB, tensioners, WP, baffle plate, T stat...

[idosubaru]

if they didn't properly "burp" your coolant, it would have overheated right away and kept overheating, not been intermittent.

 

going 40,000+ miles after the first sign of head gasket issues on a Phase I DOHC (your engine) is almost unheard of. that's really strange. i don't think there's any chance of pinning this on the dealer.

 

on engines run with bad head gaskets for extended periods of times (10's of thousands of miles - with the exception of SOHC Phase II engines) i've seen significant damage. pay attention to the block and heads. wherever the coolant passages are you could see evidence of wearing, meaning metal is actually missing. hard to explain except to say metal will be warn off, the holes will be larger where the breach was. it'll be obvious and hopefully you don't have that.

[ron917]

 

Do you have to remove the axel to access the driver’s side engine-trans. nut, or can you use a universal joint with an extension to remove it, or is there another way to access it without removing the axel?

 

What you need is a 3/8" drive flex handle (a.k.a. breaker bar) and a standard 14mm socket. It gets in there like it was made for the job, much better than a universal (socket likes to slip with them - no way to get good pressure on the nut). Don't try this with your 1/2" drive flex handle/breaker bar, it won't fit.

 

This is the one in my tool collection:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944363000P?vName=Tools&keyword=flex+handle

[98sub2500leg]

no need to touch the axle....just get a light down there andyour universal...it's the toughest connection to get acess to on the car

I have the same car 96 OB wagon....bought for 400 with the HG condition. This was my first big job on the newer style subs. I would think you have read this board enough that you are doing all the necessary things...seals, TB, tensioners, WP, baffle plate, T stat...

 

Thanks for the response. I am pretty well tooled up. I have kept the car clean and will be keeping it long term so plan on replacing all seals, gaskets, TB, tensioner,idler pullys, belts,wp, plugs,wires, possibly o2 sensor, hoses,oil pump seals, hoses. What would also be helpful is knowing if I need to replace the CH torque to yield bolts. Some Sub mechanics swear they reuse them, others claim you can only use them once. At around $15ea x 12 that adds up, on the other hand don't want to take any chances. Havn't purchased the parts yet, waiting to remove eng & inspect. As much as I want to avoid the dealer, I will most likely pony up for most of the parts there to remain OEM.

[98sub2500leg]

if they didn't properly "burp" your coolant, it would have overheated right away and kept overheating, not been intermittent.

 

going 40,000+ miles after the first sign of head gasket issues on a Phase I DOHC (your engine) is almost unheard of. that's really strange. i don't think there's any chance of pinning this on the dealer.

 

on engines run with bad head gaskets for extended periods of times (10's of thousands of miles - with the exception of SOHC Phase II engines) i've seen significant damage. pay attention to the block and heads. wherever the coolant passages are you could see evidence of wearing, meaning metal is actually missing. hard to explain except to say metal will be warn off, the holes will be larger where the breach was. it'll be obvious and hopefully you don't have that.

 

One point is that on the overheat problem, you can have no bottom hose coolant flow from a closed TS, but gauges work in normal levels fooling you that you are not overheating. In certain conditions the temp gauge intermittently goes high. When this scenario takes place you basically lost coolant from resevoir overflow as I did a lot of testing on it under different conditions. I am hopeful the engine hasn't been compromised. It seems to run as well as the day I bought it-strong & solid. However if it needs a lot of internal repair ($$), I figure I might as well buck up for a CCR with a 3 yr warrenty.