Scoobywagon Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm sorry to tell you this, but you need to re-evacuate that system. It has air in it again. Once you've got good vacuum, close the lower valve on the yellow hose. Disconnect the vacuum pump, connect your first can of 134a. Open the lower valve on the yellow hose slowly. As I said before, R134a is corrosive in the presence of air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhilo Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 OK, my car is a '93 Loyale, SPFI, 2WD, Auto. no problem pulling vacuum again, but as I said I would like to be able to confirm that the compressor works. so.. My questions now: Is there a pressure sensor or switch somewhere which is falsely preventing the compressor clutch from being engaged? Can I jumper the single wire leading to the compressor to 12VDC to cause the compressor to run? I would like to at least acheive a complete fillning so I know the rest of the system is functioning and can cool the car. I can then track down the continuing fault(s) pressure switch, or bad wire or A/C compressor relay? P.S. It would help if I could find a complete schematic showing the A/C system components and locations. I only have the Chilton's total care for a range of cars of this period and it doesn't show any A/C stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Can I jumper the single wire leading to the compressor to 12VDC to cause the compressor to run? I would like to at least acheive a complete fillning so I know the rest of the system is functioning and can cool the car. are you trying to say you are trying to fill the system with the compressor running? Like it was said before the reasons why a compressor wont turn on is because it's underfilled or it's overfilled both cause it not to run to PROTECT the compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Mineral oil was for R12 systems. R134A generally uses PAG. The zexel and calsonic took different weights one was 100 I htink the ohter was 110. picked up some PAG 100 oil and a can of R134A with UV so I can pinpoint where the leak is at... I hear the most common area is the O-rings.. should I buy them now or wait until after I do the leak test? Anyone know where I can find a UV light at without having to order one off the internet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The Loyale is more of an Old Gen car. You may be able to find some info on schematics/diagrams in the old gen forum. To expand on what Scoobywagon mentioned. You should make sure the manifold valves are shut. Depending on the connection at the vacuum pump, , there may not be a way to keep air out. If that is the case, you just need to purge the yellow hose & manifold for about 3 seconds once the AC can is connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhilo Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Legacy777, thanks I somehow got this thread started on the new gen forum, sorry, should I start a new thread do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I wouldn't worry about it. If its a problem, the mods will move it. But the thread is helpful for pretty much ANYONE with a 134A system regardless of year and model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I have a question when recharging using the manifold gauges how do I connect the can to the service port of the gauges? Wont I need a adapter? Also at the time I did not know but I brought PAG 100 oil that also has r134a but I noticed at another store they had the PAG 100 with just the oil.. I ask because I brought a can of R134A with UV and finally found a place that had a UV pen light to check for leaks So I was just wondering should I use it or get the one with just the oil? And last the talk about the O-rings are most likely the issue for all leaks where are the o-rings at? Are they at each nut connection on the condenser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yes, you will need a fitting to connect to the can, and then another adapter to open the schrader valve on the service hose. It really doesn't matter about the oil. It should not hurt anything to use the one with oil. in all actuality, it's probably lost a little bit of oil over the years. There is typically o-rings at any piping connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hmm I have not started to fix it until after July 4th however I put in fog lights and removed the whole front bumper and I noticed the AC condenser had a dark oily spot where a fin looked like it been hit pretty sure that's where my leak is coming from.. I mean what else would cause a oil spot in that area.. oh well at least I can get in a new condenser.. was not looking forward to having to drain the coolant :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 An oily spot in the middle of your condenser is a good indicator of a leak. Adding oil isn't a bad idea. As Legacy777 said, it has lost some oil over time. However, I would not add more than about 2 ounces of oil as there is still some in the compressor and over-filling with oil can be a real problem since it is not compressible. It can drive up head pressures and reduce compressor life. Also, adding dye isn't a bad idea, but it is (usually) also an oil so use it as a replacement for the oil you're adding. If you want dye in the system add dye. If you want oil, add oil. Don't add both. You will find O-rings at EVERY fitting in the system. Depending on what compressor you have, there will be at least 2 and up to 4 at the compressor. There will be 1 at each end of the condenser. There will be 2-4 on the receiver/dryer. 4 at the expansion valve. There are usually some connectors under the hood between the condenser and the compressor and the reciever/dryer. Also, when you replace the condenser, make sure you also replace the reciever/dryer. They are usually about $30-40 or so and, since they provide filtration and moisture separation for the system, are some REALLY cheap insurance against a corroded A/C system. Another thought you might consider is going to R12A instead of R134A. Old R12 is usually about $80/lb. 134A is usually around $30. R12A is about $15-20/lb. It is a more efficient refrigerant than either R12 or R134A. The result of that is increased compressor life and improved fuel economy. There are also some REALLY good additives available for R12a that can seal pin-hole leaks and chemically bond with moisture to create a synthetic lubricant. Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 if I have to do the o rings at the expansion valve might as well change out the evaporator as well since it looks a bit "rough" the oil i brought as i stated before comes in a can with r134a I also have a can of r134a with UV but given that leak I really don't need that... and of course I would replace the receiver/dryer it's cheap enough to do it period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyB0y Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Good info, I have a question: where would you look first if after replacing the the coolant by evacuating the old while adding the new, I have gone through 3 10oz cans of the Coolant/Oil/Sealant combo stuff, and I have only the cheap gauge that comes with the cans to measure the pressure. I did this with the can running AC on max and full fan. The first can I miss-understood the directions and had the can upside-down and at the 3 O'clock position (supposed to be going from right side-up or 12 O'clock position) and I had 3 10oz cans in the kit. Upon adding coolant, after each can was added, I got a decent cool breeze from the AC, but never as cool as I would expect, and after trying the add and evacuate method, I was able to keep the pressure at the recommended level while replacing the old contents of the AC system. However, even though it was running reasonably cool during this process, I would shut it all down thinking it was a done deal, and then start up again and no cooling!? I don't really trust the cheap gauge they give you with the kit, but if I can, it hasn't lost any pressure. Suggestions? (This is on a 85 brat btw if that helps.) P.S. I never did the vacuum method to remove air/water etc. Can that be done now that I have filled with coolant, and if so, would using my "might-vac" (break line bleeding tool) to create the vacuum be doable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 " I have gone through 3 10oz cans of the Coolant/Oil/Sealant combo stuff" Is that all in the same system/ There is such a thing as too much of all three of them, and too much can be far worse then too little. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyB0y Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Well, I understand, I have the gauge that comes with the kit saying I have optimal pressure, but how do I know if I have "too much" of any one thing? I haven't simply added all 30 oz, but I have used the coolant cans to push out anything else in the system. Does this preclude the need to use vacuum to boil out water and remove air? If not, is my "mighty vac" hand pump vacuum able to do the job, and will this mean another round of coolant after? It would seem to me that I must have issues other than coolant pressure, but I have never done anything like this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Sometimes you have to give into a pro. You cant just suck the old gas out of the car without recapturing it, its illegal and unethical. To properly know what you have or will need you need the AC gauges, and a thermometer. You evacuate the system to remove all the moisture, and it will also help you check for a system leak. Gas is a compressable medium, so you really did not use the cans to push anything out, you may have very easily over filled the system. I dont know how much refrigerant your car takes off hand, but a legacy takes at max 1.5 lbs (20 ounces). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) It does a third too. It will tell you if you have a leak, as it wont pull down a proper vacume. nipper That is the main reason to vacuum for a recharge. It tells you if you have any leaks. (on older systems you usually will find a few seals that need to be replaced) Big waste of money and time to recharge and have it all leak out in a week. This is where AC system service tools come in handy. You vacuum, put in a UV dye leak detector, recharge and run the system for 20 minutes or so. Check all hoses and components with a UV light for traces of the dye. Evacuate the system, replace what needs, then vacuum a second time and recharge. It sounds to me like the expansion valve may need to be replaced. Id take the car to an AC shop and have them service it if I were you. Edit: The hand pump won't work. You need about 30" of vacuum sustained for at least 15 minutes. Edited August 6, 2009 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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