Stormygirl Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 HI-- I'm new here, and thanks in advance for any advice I might receive. We have a '98 Impreza that has developed a strange dying problem. This all started last August right after I had a new battery put in and the tires rotated (possibly coincidental). Within a few days the Check Engine Light came on, but the car ran fine until I brought it in to the mechanic (40-60 miles). The mechanic said that no computer codes came up, and reset the light. ~150 miles further, in traffic on 101, while hitting the brakes and changing lanes (bumps), the Check Engine Light came on again, and within ten seconds the car died. The radio continued playing, and the lights stayed on until I turned them off. Immediately I tried to restart the car and there was nothing. No start, no grind, no whine, just nothing. Ten minutes later the car started perfectly and ran just fine for the remainder of the 300+ miles I had to drive that day. The Check Engine Light stayed on throughout that drive. The next day the light was off, and the car started and ran without trouble. Several hundred miles further, going downhill, hitting the brakes and a rough section of road, the Check Engine Light came on again. The car died within a few seconds. Previous to dying the car sounded and felt like it was running just fine. Again, no start immediately after dying. It started within five minutes, but ran rough so I turned it off for a few more minutes. After I restarted the car, it ran beautifully and sounded normal. I stopped at a dealer, who refered me to another Sub mechanic in town because they were busy. The other sub mechanic came up with an "undocumented code" and told me that they had no idea what caused this problem. Two days and several hundred miles further it happened again, exactly as before, braking, rough road, Check Engine Light, dead car. Ten minutes later it started up without trouble. The local Sub dealer wants a freaking $200 to stick it on their computer and run a diagnostic. I think dealers suck. If I have to go to them, I will, but I thought I'd look at other options first. This car has ~140k, has been driven mostly on highways and open roads, not much city, and has no major work done--just regular tune-ups, timing belt, etc. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Incidentally and possibly coincidentally--it seems that every time this car has died, it's been running with lights and radio on, and the gas tank has been below 1/2. Every time it's been within a few seconds of braking/quick deceleration and hitting some bumps on the road. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Thanks in advance..... Stormygirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Man what a puzzler! Seems like braking is one common element, perhaps either an electrical intermittent caused by the engine/drivetrain shifting forward during braking - maby a loose ground. Pulling and pushing on some wiring harnesses while the engine is idling mighjt divulge something. Or perhaps an issue with a vacuum leak, a major one in the brake booster - though I doubt it would kill the engine - anyone? sorry that's all I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 You may be able to track this problem down by tapping on things like OLT suggested. Hopefully you just have a loose wire connection to something. I like to use a rubber handled screwdriver to tap on things with the handle end to help find problems like this. While running the engine I would start with the ECU and the wires near it, and while under the dash try the relays there also. The fuse panel may be suspect also along with the fuse links. Your best clue to me sounds like the power for the areas that help start the engine and keep it running . You stated that you could not even crank the engine so it even may just be the ignition switch that is at fault or the power relays it turns on, so give it a whack also. Keep us posted on the progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 It seems your problems started when the battery was changed. I would start the car and gently wiggle the battery cables and all of the related wires that connect to the battery terminals. I would also gently wiggle the wires going into the fuse box to the rear of the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesbaru Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Water in the gas tank? knew of a guy with an Impreza who's car died everytime he went around a sharp corner, because the water would get stirred up and get sucked into the fuel line. Could there be water in your gas tank that gets stirred up and pulled into the line when you're braking on a rough road? Has your fuel filter been changed? Was it grungy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSisters Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Good observation and post. If one has water in thier gas tank, either from a bad tankful or normal condensation, what's the best (easiest) way to get rid of it and prevent it in the future? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 That wouldn't cause the car to not turn over, which is the behaviour described. FWIW, I prefer isopropyl dry gas over the methanol kind. I add a bottle about every two weeks during the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I'm leaning toward the basic power supply elements. battery cables, ground connections, possibly getting into the ignition switch/power relay stuff, but I don't think the problem is any further upstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormygirl Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Thanks for the continued replies! I'm gonna get my boyfriend out there tomorrow to help me try some "stuff". It seems so weird to me that this car is (somewhat) consistantly dying, and then not starting for about ten minutes, but then starting. One thing I forgot to add. Right after my first "dying" episode, when I drove from Santa Barbara to San Jose up highway 101, with the light on the whole way, my uncle wiggled all the wires and fuses, and the light went out the next day. Since that time I've had two-three dying situations, where the light has gone back out after I've waited the seemingly obligatory ten minutes before starting the car again, but it has not stayed on for a few hundred miles like it did tomorrow. I'm so confused!! LOL Thanks again....and I'll let ya know if I come up with any resolutions. It just really frosts my socks that the sub dealer won't put it on the computer without charging me two hundred smackers. I'd like to smack them! ha Stormygirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 It sounds like a bad connection or a battery with an internal short. Since I have seen about 100 bad connections and only one battery with an internal short brand new I say connection. Pop them off, clean with a battery terminal cleaner, set the connector to the correct size and tighten securely. I would say any idiot could do this correctly, but apparently one did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Also, I'm just throwing another long shot here, maybe an alternator problem. Some type of internal, heat related short. The 10 minute wait thing is kinda weird. Was there a recall on soob alts.? Does her '98 fall into that recall? maybe Autozone or some indie. mechanic could pull the CEL code. Might not be the same code each time. Also, I like snotty's relay idea, a device possibly affected by BOTH braking and heat - 10 minute wait for reset-type idea. good luck and post back OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I have a new automotive systems textbook, and it still amazes me how much emphasis they still put on the "wiggle test". Definately seems relevant in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrigueing Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Whenever I get a problem I start by looking at what happened just before the problem - for you it was a battery change and tire rotation. I can't think of how the tire rotation could cause anything, however a battery swap could. Maybe a battery with plates that are shorting out when the cars momentum is forward. However your accessories continue to work....weird. Are you sure the accessories did not act weird at all? Make sure power cables are not pulled tight or pinched. Which leads me to some other weird conditions indicated by you - the problem only happens when gas is less than 1/2, perhaps weak fuel pump, loose wires, or something floating in your gas tank that gets drawn to the fuel intake when the gas slushes to the front of the tank, causing the car to die - maybe even setting a relay with the fuel pump to keep it from running while dry.......Water in the gas alone does not explain why the car does not crank after it dies. Something with the fuel pump is what is screaming at me now......tough one - good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman2 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I have known of a Mustang, Dodge truck and a Nissan truck doing similar things in my life time that were all the computor starting to check out. Seems once they cooled off they would fire back up and run. Of course they eventually died completely. Have no idea if Subs are the same, but just thought I would throw that in. Glenn Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 This could also be the fabled "crack in ecu circuitboard", but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormygirl Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 I would like to thank everyone, and ask a couple of questions.... I've been a little afraid that it might be the computer. Snotrocket (great name!), if you wouldn't mind, please explain what the "fabled crack in the ECU circuitboard" is all about. Incidentally, as far as gas is concerned--this problem started in southern California in late August--not many issues with condensation there. Also, my sub only gets the best gas, no cut rate slop for my cars! LOL Generally fill up with Chevron or Union 76. Lucky Texan--good idea to check for recalls, which was one of the first things I did, and none are listed for this car/VIN. Thanks again..... Stormygirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Once again, I doubt this is the problem. However, occasionally, the circuitboard in the ecu cracks. I don't know why. Anyway, when the car has been off for a while, everything is cool, and all of the connections on the cracked part are touching, so everything is fine. But when it warms up, thermal expansion warps the circuit board and things stop making connection. This approaches the exceedingly rare category, but it does happen (like on my girlfriend's BMW). Don't suspect this because you haven't exhausted other possibilities yet, and it doesn't really fit the profile of your problems. I would be very suspicious of your primary power supply stuff (battery cables, bigger power relays, ignition switch, GROUNDS, etc.). Scroll down this thread, and you'll see the car behind the name. Ooooh... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/usmb/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9872&highlight=poorly+posted+pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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