how bad is the ej25?

[idosubaru]

I bought a new 2000 Outback Ltd Edition and replaced the head gaskets at 85,000-miles, just out of warranty.

Subaru offered an extended 100,000 mile head gasket warranty campaign for that motor, it should have been covered unless you were outside of the 8 or 10 year age limit.

[SubyZ]

New member here browsing the forums trying to figure out if these engines are in fact known for this.. and i guess I'm not the only one. 90k miles, and the HG on my EJ25 daily driver just went. Sucks.

[Bmm001]

What is the percentage of EJ25's that have had HG problems vs. the total # of EJ25's on the road? Anyone know?

 

More specifically, compare that percentage for Phase I vs. Phase II.

 

Now compare the percentage of owners/posters on this forum, or any other Subaru forum to the total number of Subaru owners. So how bad is it really? Many times, but not always, people gravitate to forms to find an answer to a problem, so I'm asking if the perspective could be a bit skewed?

 

I'm not denying that Subaru could have handled the whole situation better. I think they were in denial too long, and took too long to fix it once they admitted the problem. I'm also not denying that overall it seems that the EJ25 is not quite as bullet-proof as the EJ22's, particularly the pre-interference iteration of the EJ22.

 

But every time I drive my '03 outback, which did have a HG external leak at 30K that was fixed, I realize how much smoother and quieter it is than any of my family's EJ22 Subarus. Plus, it gets the same gas mileage with 30 more hp in a big heavy car like the OB!

 

Just trying to provide another point of view for the OP.

Brian

[johnceggleston]

New member here browsing the forums trying to figure out if these engines are in fact known for this.. and i guess I'm not the only one. 90k miles, and the HG on my EJ25 daily driver just went. Sucks.

 

96 - 99 had internal leaks so they those head gaskets were bad, or had a good chance of going bad.

00 - 03/04?/05? had external leaks so they changed the HGs for those years, but still some were bad, maybe not as many, but still a design problem.

so at some point they changed the gasket again. i've been on here since late '05 and i have only heard that if you use the ''newest" subaru HGs you'll be fine. so it would appear that they finally got it right before then.

 

clearly the original HG design had limitations, but what i find interesting is that not all of them went bad in the first 100k miles. some are just now going bad at 180k or more.

 

and i like nipper's theory that the heavier outback overtaxed the hg on those cars more than on the lighter imprezas or foresters. but the more miles you put on any car the higher the chance of needing a major repair.

[wardssix]

Hi, don't know percentages, but the fact that they only produced the phase 1 three production years then extended the warranty on phase 2s to 8 years and needed to mandate a "conditioner" aka stop-leak, which is hokey in itself, tells me that it was definitely a widespread issue. It went on waaaay too long. Should have been a recall but that would have been too costly.

bob

[charm]

Keep in mind that any engine can blow a headgasket. I've owned 2 subies, the first with an EJ22 and the second a phase II EJ25. Never had problems with the former and bought the later with a known HG problem.

 

The problem was an INTERNAL leaking HG. According to this board, phase IIs don't do that...mine did. I replaced the HGs and the car has been champ for the last 45k miles. I got a great deal on the car because of the HGs and, before I bought it, my mechanic gave a likely clean bill of health. So, I got a good deal, a totally resealed engine, and I now have a car I like.

 

Now, if I could just figure out how to correctly and permenantly fix my catalytic converter issues the car would be perfect.

[idosubaru]

The problem was an INTERNAL leaking HG. According to this board, phase IIs don't do that...mine did.

Most likely it exhibited external signs at first which were ignored and developed into an internal leak. Or lots of the Subaru goob was added - but too little too late. Or it was repaired previously and exhibited a different failure mode the second time around. No way to tell, but doesn't really matter much in the end.

[Qman]

Most likely it exhibited external signs at first which were ignored and developed into an internal leak. Or lots of the Subaru goob was added - but too little too late. Or it was repaired previously and exhibited a different failure mode the second time around. No way to tell, but doesn't really matter much in the end.

 

Why must we speculate when a problem doesn't follow what you said previously? They happened both ways. Some were internal and most were external.

 

The thing everyone needs to understand is that after repair they are fine and will be for a while. These motors have better power. The mileage can be as good or better than a 2.2. More room and comfort. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But, for all of those people who keep taking them out and discarding them... I will take them off your hands for free as they obviously have no value.

[Qman]

What is the percentage of EJ25's that have had HG problems vs. the total # of EJ25's on the road? Anyone know?

 

More specifically, compare that percentage for Phase I vs. Phase II.

 

Now compare the percentage of owners/posters on this forum, or any other Subaru forum to the total number of Subaru owners. So how bad is it really? Many times, but not always, people gravitate to forms to find an answer to a problem, so I'm asking if the perspective could be a bit skewed?

 

I'm not denying that Subaru could have handled the whole situation better. I think they were in denial too long, and took too long to fix it once they admitted the problem. I'm also not denying that overall it seems that the EJ25 is not quite as bullet-proof as the EJ22's, particularly the pre-interference iteration of the EJ22.

 

But every time I drive my '03 outback, which did have a HG external leak at 30K that was fixed, I realize how much smoother and quieter it is than any of my family's EJ22 Subarus. Plus, it gets the same gas mileage with 30 more hp in a big heavy car like the OB!

 

Just trying to provide another point of view for the OP.

Brian

 

This is probably the best interpretation I have seen to date. Well stated!

[SubyZ]

96 - 99 had internal leaks so they those head gaskets were bad, or had a good chance of going bad.

 

Yeah mines a 99. Problem first happened on the highway, i noticed the temp spike, pulled over and coolant was boiling over in the overflow tank. Did a couple cheap fixes first, like changing the thermostat and rad cap. When that didn't help i checked out the water pump, and the radiator isnt blocked. I just had a hard time believing a car with 90k miles, maintained thoroughly, and driven like a grandma can fail like this, so I joined a few forums like this one to check things out. Really disappointing that this happened. This problem rivals that toyota celica flaw where the engines just start drinking massive amounts of oil.

[mikec03]

Will no one will answer the question!! It's a simple question. How many of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 [before the change to the new qasket during the 02 run] will fail before 200K miles?

 

I'll guess, based on reading hundreds of posts about the head gaskets on this and other forums. For the Phase 1, the failure rate will be 50% before 200K. For the Phase 2 <2002, the failure rate will be 33% before 200K.

 

You ask, whats my methodology? My answer, IT'S A GUESS!

[etc]

update -

 

had 2 2.5L in the family, both '99 or '00. NO problems.

 

also have a 2.2L from '98, constant problems with it. Not sure if HG or what.

 

Also the older EA82 (1.8L from '92) - cracked heads.

 

2.5L is apparently not that bad and 2.2L is apparently not that good.

 

Overall, Fuji heavy industries is so-so on quality, working class people's car.

[subynut]

It all comes down to maintenance and listening to your car.

I've cooked a EA82 due to not knowing what the temp limits were, my brother killed a 1st gen EJ22 due to a bad oil pump and ignoring it, and I've got a phase II ej25 with rod knock from the previous owner not watching the oil level. My parents phase 1 EJ25 had the leaking head gasket issue that they ran for 25K miles till the oil contaminated the coolant and locked the thermostat closed and cooked the engine.

So far, my experience with engine failures were due to owner error, not Subaru's error. I like the EA82 and Phase 1 EJ22 for their non-interfearance design. However, the only reason I like them is because of my own lazyness of not wanting to replace the t-belts unless they are broken. However, if I DID replace them when they were due, it would prevent one less tow home. Who's fault is that? Mine. {stupid depraved human nature}

So, in other words, the EJ25 with the latest head gaskets is just as reliable as the EJ22 as long as you do the regular maintenance and catching any issues before they become catastrophic.

[etc]

Hm, HG job is not 'regular maintenance'.

[Qman]

Hm, HG job is not 'regular maintenance'.

 

It is a wear item, imo, though.

[subynut]

^ Yup.

[aaron chatham]

i bought a 98 forester with 165000k and blew head gaskets 4 days later. good subaru mech. did the job for $2200. new everything that had to come off to do the job.......a month later the car overheated again...turns out they did not add the coolant additive. reground the heads, new larger valves, new cam and coolant additive later car runs stronger... they did the 2nd fix for free including new valves and cam. they told me its a little better performer now and the bottom end will last longer.....no problems a year later and love the improved performance...if you are willing to work thru the problems you can make it work

[StructEngineer]

It is a wear item, imo, though.

 

So where's the replacement interval in the service manual?

[idosubaru]

So where's the replacement interval in the service manual?

I think there's lots of things not listed in service manuals that tend to be wear items - tires, wiper blades, light bulbs, floor mats, brake caliper boots, yellowed head light lenses, strut parts, axle boots....

 

I mean I see your point and differing opinions are cool, but I'm not seeing much value in everyone coming to a consensus on how to view repairs.

[kemmer]

calling a head gasket a wear item is like calling piston rings a wear item. it's not something you should have to replace after 50k miles like many 2.5 owners have had to do.

 

my personal experience with the 2.5 phase 1 engine has not been all that good, but not terrible either. I replaced the original engine with a low mileage used one at 120k miles, and at 180k miles the replacement now is toast (though not to a head gasket failure). I have owned several Japanese cars that ran great when I sold them at 150-200k miles having had no engine work done during their lifetimes.

[wardssix]

"I have owned several Japanese cars that ran great when I sold them at 150-200k miles having had no engine work done during their lifetimes"

 

+1 ^^^

[05 Lemon Legacy]

JUNK!

 

My 05 apparently has an internal head gasket leak which apparently floated a bearing by leaking coolant into my oil! ROD KNOCK!!! This occurred quickly and without warning or obvious signs and between oil changes.

 

65k with documented maintenance.

 

I'm running back to Honda, Acura and Lord help me, GM!!!!

 

I've owned more than 40 cars in my lifetime and have NEVER had a failure such as this. My first Sub wagon trashed it's AT, but at 135k. Never had an engine or HG failure at less than 100k in anything until now.

 

Just get a Honda or Acura run them to 200k, save yourself the heartache and when you need to travel in snow use a good GM or Ford truck with 4WD.