Able to replace headgasket without removing motor?

[1992_Loyale]

Hey guys,

 

I have a 92 Loyale with the EA82. The headgasket is blown on the passenger side, and I'm in the midst of replacing it. I already have the valve cover removed, but I can't seem to get the the rest of the bolts that keep me from the headgasket, so I'm thinking the motor HAS to be removed to be able to do this.

 

So, my question to you folks, can it be done with the motor in the car, or must the motor be removed? Is there anything I can let go to give me enough clearance to get the bolts out? Thanks,

 

Hodder

[raven1835]

yes, it can be done, at great cost to your sanity. if you have the tools to pull the engine, it is a much better option imop. with the eng out, you can clean everything up better. also reassembling and sealing the rocker boxes is much easier.

[GeneralDisorder]

It's actually quite easy with the engine in the car. I never pull them for a simple head gasket replacement.

 

What specifically are you having trouble with?

 

GD

[4x4_Welder]

Pull the wheel, and there are a couple rubber plugs in the inner fenderwell. Pull these, and use a long extension to reach the bolts.

You may need a wobble extension or a u-joint on some of them.

[1992_Loyale]

I'm having trouble getting the bolts out that are found after the valve cover is removed, basically the ones found behind the OHC that let part of the block come off to access the head.

 

GeneralDisorder, do you think you can post a series of steps to walk me through it, if it's not too much trouble?

 

I never thought on taking the wheel off, thanks for the tip! I'll be trying that as soon as i get a chance this week. I'll keep you guys updated.

[idosubaru]

It's actually quite easy with the engine in the car. I never pull them for a simple head gasket replacement.

+1

 

it is a waste of time to pull the engine for an EA82. actually i'm in the middle of an XT6 (6 cylinder) and i wouldn't even think of pulling the engine to do it even though i have all the equipment to in my garage. much quicker doing it in the car. i can have both heads off before someone has the engine out.

 

you should post a picture, nothing comes to my mind that makes these things hard.

 

the hardest part is the lower valve cover bolts, which come right out with a great tool - the ratcheting wrench.

 

the most time consuming part of this job is cleaning up the heads, and cam towers. that's one reason that sending them to a machine shop is so nice - stuff comes back clean and you spent zero time scrubbing and scraping.

 

you said one head gasket is blown, best to replace both while you got it all apart.

good luck!

[ShawnW]

While I would agree that its doable in the car I wouldn't advise that somebody having trouble continue to try removing the 1 head in the car.

 

Rent or borrow an engine hoist and remove the engine. You will be able to see what you are doing and next time (or not) you will know where all the bolts are, sizes, how long they are, etc so doing it in the car will be doable next car.

 

Id love to have the opportunity to race somebody that says they can remove 1 head in the car faster than I can get the whole engine out. I can remove most EFI engines that aren't turbocharged in around 40-50 minutes. (well not today I am too sore from a car accident). Ill also be able to replace the clutch, rear separator plate, timing belt and other things faster or at all by removing it.

[raven1835]

+1 to shawn- the point about how familiar you are w/this engine is key. the first time i tried to do this job eng in car, i was a total rookie on this setup. when i broke loose the cam box, and the cam followers fell to the ground, i was astounded. plus i am a xxlarge person and getting down between the frame rails is trying. anyway, i just think things will go better eng out esp. your first time. plus makes a good time to reseal & rebelt eng and clean out eng compartment.

[idosubaru]

i will say if you plan on doing a thorough job cleaning the head bolts to spotless and don't have air tools, having the engine out is big plus.

 

I can remove most EFI engines that aren't turbocharged in around 40-50 minutes.

i'd like to watch that too, and i mean that seriously not argumentatively. an engine come out in 40 minutes...meaning lift, chain set up, and everything.

 

still talking 1.5 hours pulling and installing. for how simple the head gasket is it's not worth 1.5 hours to me.

 

if he's having trouble with one bolt on an EA82 head gasket job i would think an engine pull might be more than is good for him to attempt right now.

[GeneralDisorder]

I don't pull them - probably because in the vast majority of cases I'm just doing the HG to get the car on the road. The EA82 falls into the same catagory as a camry or a civic to me. Those engines are dead in my eyes and I don't spend the meticulous hours on them that I would contribute to an EJ22T or an EA81 etc.

 

That's not to say that I don't do the job right - I am meticulous when it comes to the soundness of the repair - I'm just not going to steam clean the thing, media blast, paint, etc.

 

I pull the intake and exhaust, radiator, accesory belts and timing set. Then I pull the rocker covers and carefully remove the cam towers making sure to note the posistion of the rockers. I cut a peice of cardboard and make 8 X's with a utility knife and arrows to show the front of the engine with a sharpie. I insert the rockers and the lifters in pairs into the X's in the cardboard and set the whole thing aside.

 

I then pull both heads and inspect. If they need milled I have that done. I generally lap the valves and replace the stem seals.

 

I wire wheel every bolt, chase every internal thread with the appropriate tap, and test fit every one to insure they are smooth and will torque properly without binding. I prep all the surfaces by hand with a razor blade and brown scotch-brite. I properly prep the intake and exhaust manifold nuts/bolts - dissasembling any studs that have frozen to the nuts and wire wheeling as appropriate. I wire wheel the intake and exhaust flanges.

 

When all the parts are prepped I begin assembly. I lay everything out on clean shop rags and take inventory. I jack the engine off the cross member on the side I'm working to assure no coolant is present at the HG mating suface of the block. I install the head gasket and head (no coatings on the gasket or surfaces - just clean and dry). I torque the bolts in the proper order making sure the bolt threads are oiled and there is no binding. The procedure is done in three steps ending at (IIRC) 65 Ft/lbs - this is about 5 or 7 lbs over the book reccomendation and I do it to avoid the need to retorque them after a run-in. It has been my experience and other's here on this board that this works well.

 

That's pretty much it - you reassemble the rest, time the thing and dump in some coolant.

 

I have yet to have one fail after doing a HG job. It does take me longer to do it than most people because I'm extremely anal about my work. But on the EA82's I don't go to the trouble of cleaning things that don't affect the job I'm doing. I scrape enough gunk off to do the job and that's it.

 

I suspect in the future I may never do another one unless it's for a friend - I won't own one and I doubt I'll be accepting any for free except as 5 speed donors - to the scrap heap with the rest of the blighted thing.

 

GD