98sub2500leg Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Anyone know the safest method for doing this without damaging the surfaces. Is there a special tool to remove it? I have the oil pump off, removed the 5 screws. I thought it would be easier to get to it from the inside, but so far I haven't had any success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 For me I removed it with the oil pump still on but I used a screwdriver and was VERY careful not to nick the surface. It came out very easy compared how the haynes manual said and stories I've heard online. it was in and out in 5 min.. took me longer to clean the inside of the seal housing then it took to get it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Anyone know the safest method for doing this without damaging the surfaces. Is there a special tool to remove it? I have the oil pump off, removed the 5 screws. I thought it would be easier to get to it from the inside, but so far I haven't had any success. One of the guys on this board is a subaru tech and gave me this link for a tool...http://www.autobarn.net/lisleshaftpuller.html I have not needed it yet but I sure plan on buying it,,,,the crank and especially the cam seals were one huge PIA last time to get out Pm me me if you buy it and use it...would like to know if it is good thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have that tool above and it does work like a champ. But with the pump off its real easy. If you still can't get at it with that toll hit it from the back side with a screw driver and be carful not to nick any sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Well, I was resigned to going back into town when I decided to give it another try. I didn't realize that the seal comes molded around another piece of metal. The seal wouldn't pull out, nor did I have luck tapping it out from the inside out. I carefully used a small screwdriver to pry it up from one side, then the other. The seal was still holding well after 107k miles, but doubt it would have held for much more than 1-2 more years or up to 30k miles without hardening more then developing cracks and leaking. Still also have the 4 cam seals to change, and without rear access I figure I will still more than likely need a seal remover tool. I will keep this post updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Dont even try without the right tool if you ding the surface you will leak more oil than before you replaced the seals. Im not sure I would be worried about them leaking if they aren't now. If they are brown seals they have likely already been replaced before. The factory put black ones in and those tended to leak and were on a TSB if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 So far got the old seal out with a lot of finesse and no damage(examined surface with a portable microscope). Before reinserting the new seal, does that press in dry or with o ring lube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I rubbed engine oil on it and 4,000 miles later I've never had a leak.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yes I like that tool too, I bought a couple on eBay they work pretty nicely. Putting the new seals in I put a little grease on the outside of the seal to help it go in, doing it dry seemed way too hard and it kind of rubbed the rubber off the metal when I tried it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) They made a very relevant demonstration: Edited May 27, 2009 by avk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Interesting video. I wish I could get the soob seals to come out that easily. I always have to wrestle with them even with that tool switching sides a couple times etc to get them to come out, especially when they've been in there for 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 UPDATE: This was actually fairly easy to remove. I used a Wiha (1/8") flat blade on one corner, and using a piece of plastic on the fulcrum to protect the surface), then wedged it up on one end, then the other from the outside of the housing. When reinstalling the new seal, I bought some high temp green goo from Napa (used for seals & "O"rings). As recommended by the dealer, I applied some to the inside of the seal near the spring, and on the outside edges as recommended by the dealer. I used a 1 1/2" piece of plumbing slip fitting as the inserter. I was able to apply hand pressure and it easily drove in with minimal hand force, thanks to the lube-perfect tight seal. I used my calipers and checked around the outside of the top portion of the seal to the pump housing for evenness of seating approx. every 15 deg for uniformity. I almost bought the seal removal tool, but it looked like there was a hook that is inserted down the shaft and was concerned it could scratch the surface ruining the machined surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Interesting video. I wish I could get the soob seals to come out that easily. I always have to wrestle with them even with that tool switching sides a couple times etc to get them to come out, especially when they've been in there for 10 years. Well one thing I left out: I first tried grasping the inside edge of the seal with plyers, vise grips, ect. and pulling it out. The seal pulled apart so I knew that wasn't the answer. I had to use patience and some finesse to pry it up, but it came up very easily. Not a lot of force is needed. I have read posts somewhere that describes drilling into the seal from the front on 2 sides, then installing self tapping machine screws and pulling it out that way. Not realistic at all. The seal is completely molded around metal to keep its rigidity, that is why it is so expensive. There is .21" of a lip from the inside edge of the seal where you could drill into. Not only would it be a risky proposition, but the screws would have to be like a #2 size. It would be very difficult if impossible to find self tappers that small and if you could get them chances are they may pull out anyway. Plus unless you had pump off, drilling into the seal would most lilely leave bits of the seal in the pump-not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Interesting video. I wish I could get the soob seals to come out that easily. I always have to wrestle with them even with that tool switching sides a couple times etc to get them to come out, especially when they've been in there for 10 years. Well one thing I left out: I first tried grasping the inside edge of the seal with plyers, vise grips, ect. and pulling it out. The seal pulled apart so I knew that wasn't the answer. I had to use patience and some finesse to pry it up, but it came up very easily. Not a lot of force is needed. I have read posts somewhere that describes drilling into the seal from the front on 2 sides, then installing self tapping machine screws and pulling it out that way. Not realistic at all. The seal is completely molded around metal to keep its rigidity, that is why it is so expensive. There is .21" of a lip from the inside edge of the seal where you could drill into. Not only would it be a risky proposition, but the screws would have to be like a #2 size. It would be very difficult if impossible to find self tappers that small and if you could get them chances are they may pull out anyway. Plus unless you had pump off, drilling into the seal would most lilely leave bits of the seal in the pump-not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yes I have tried the drill and screws method and scratched the cam that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Yes I have tried the drill and screws method and scratched the cam that way. Not sure why anyone would ever suggest that sorry to hear that happened . I haven't got to the rear seal yet. If it doesn't come out as easily as the front I will get the Lisle removal tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 it wasn't a bad scratch but you know drill bits a mind of their own when close to a nice smooth surface they just can't resist but be attracted to it. I polished off the scratch as best I could hopefully it won't eat up the seal lip. Can you tell a little more about the napa green goop, I want to pick some of that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 It's called Dr. Trannys Assemblee Goo. Got it at Napa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 The front main seal was relatively easy compared to the rear seal. The pry trick didn't work on this one. I will be definitely be getting the removal tool. This is the original seal. It was still holding and looks like it is in good shape, but I already have it torn down so it's coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 To remove the rear seal, which has a lot more surface contact,. The seal is also wider than the front. I Talked to a dealer mechanic, they use the seal remover pick tool. Coming in from the front of the seal, you insert the pick into the seal itself not at the shaft or you can damage that area. Rotate the pick to grab the inside edge of the seal then pull straight out. I will re-post the results later. NOTE: This pick tool is used for the rear seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 unless your rear seal is leaking, don't replace it. if you do replace it, take special note of where it is seated, located, before you remove it. otherwise you may regret touching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 unless your rear seal is leaking, don't replace it. if you do replace it, take special note of where it is seated, located, before you remove it. otherwise you may regret touching it. I was already thinking that, but the seal will will only last so long before it needs replacing. I'm not sure what the MTBF (mean time between failure) is on that seal. Sounds like you have had bad experience with resealing on this particular seal. Thanks for the tip on the position (I am assuming your referring to the marks on the seal). I can see that unless one were to precisely measure, the roundness and seating around the top edge after it has been seated there could be problems. The eyeball test for me looked like it was dead nuts seated, but after using my calipers to check roundness, I found it was not properly seated and fixed it. Even a small amount of improper seating would quickly shorten the life of the seal and leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I was already thinking that, but the seal will will only last so long before it needs replacing. I'm not sure what the MTBF (mean time between failure) is on that seal. Sounds like you have had bad experience with resealing on this particular seal. Thanks for the tip on the position (I am assuming your referring to the marks on the seal). I can see that unless one were to precisely measure, the roundness and seating around the top edge after it has been seated there could be problems. The eyeball test for me looked like it was dead nuts seated, but after using my calipers to check roundness, I found it was not properly seated and fixed it. Even a small amount of improper seating would quickly shorten the life of the seal and leak. i have never done the seal but more than one member has had to do the seal twice, because they set it too deep? or something the first time. i'm willing to bet that there are subarus with250k miles and original rear main seals. some people drive these cars leaking a lot, how badly is your rear seal leaking? if it's not leaking, don't touch it. any one out there had a serious rear main leak???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Well, I may live to regret it, but since I had already purchased the seal I decided to use it. I did meticulously measured several different points around the seal before removing. I found the most accurate to be a depth gauge because you can use the flat edge as a square to make sure it is seated before making the measurement, then transferring that to the calipers for precise measurement. I am keeping my fingers crossed, I'm normally not a gambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Sandwich your old seal between the driving tool (such as PVC plumbing fitting) and the new seal. You will feel it when the old seal bottoms out in the chamfer. For the crank seal, it's not even an issue because the seal sits at the bottom of the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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