Used Oil Analysis on my 99 OBW

[MiniTransAm]

Came out awesome!

 

Oil is Maxlife 5w-30 with a Purolator Pure One filter and a Purolator air filter.

 

[OB99W]

Looks good. The molybdenum is assumedly from the oil itself. Fuel dilution at under 0.5% and no water suggests that you don't do a lot of short trips. Unless you want to be conservative, it definitely looks like you could run the oil and filter a bit longer, as Blackstone suggested.

 

If anyone else is interested in using Blackstone's services, I found a link for the test kit: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html . There are other labs that do similar testing.

[lostinthe202]

Interesting. What can one learn from an oil analysis?

[ericem]

If your engine is messed. Shows if there is any contamination from coolant, bad oil, metals in your motor, etc etc.

[OB99W]

Interesting. What can one learn from an oil analysis?

In broad terms, analysis will tell you if the oil was still doing its job at the time the sample was taken, and if the engine is exhibiting symptoms of certain types of problems.

 

Examples: Readings for metals can inform of wear of things like bearings, cylinder walls, etc. Viscosity of multigrade oil can divulge whether the index improvers are still intact -- along with fuel/antifreeze/water percentages, it can indicate whether the oil is detrimentally contaminated with those things. TBN (Total Base Number) can determine whether the oil's alkalinity is sufficient to neutralize acids that form when an engine is run. Etc.

 

EDIT:

Here's a comprehensive explanation: http://www.analaboratories.com/commonrootie/oiltests.asp

Edited May 27, 2009 by OB99W
Found a good link

[lostinthe202]

Sorry, should've used more detail. What I meant was, assuming you found something in the oil like metal from somewhere or some amount of coolant or whatever, does this (depending of the level) give you some sort of opportunity to fix something that you wouldn't otherwise? Or can it give you a reasonably accurate idea of how long you have left before something blows? Like would you be able to say, "ah this engine going to develop rod-knock soon" or something like that?

 

I'm trying to understand how to use this tool. Like if you were able to use it to detect early headgasket failure or early rod-knock or something then it would be useful when purchasing a car to gauge the condition of the engine or before putting down a bunch of cash on other kinds of repairs.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Will-

 

p.s. I don't mean to hijack, I think it is pretty related to the OP.

[idosubaru]

i had the same thoughts will. seems like metal or coolant would be indicative of other problems (particularly on this motor) rather quickly. so to really "catch it", you'd have to do these analysis rather regularly?

 

i think one use is to provide appropriate oil change intervals. 3,000 miles and 7,500 miles are both "industry standards" in many cases via marketing or your factory owners manual. this can help determine what your actual intervals should be for your engine, driving, habits, terrain, usage, etc.

 

long haul truck commercial companies do this sort of thing and this market was initially in place for that reason before it caught on in the daily driver market.

[bheinen74]

out of my over 20 years of driving, and my Dad was a mechanic for GM for 40 years, these things are a waste of money really. Just good, solid regular maintenance and your car is good to go. Change oil every 3000 and filter. use good gas, and keep tires rotated etc...

 

others will give reasons to disagree, but yeah, these are a joke.

A old fashion compression check can tell you more info on the condition of things.

[idosubaru]

these things are a waste of money really.

others will give reasons to disagree, but yeah, these are a joke.

your philosophy works well and that's great. but it doesn't mean someone else is "wrong". to think one experience is the only fit in the world that applies to all people, situations, for all time is usually a bit shortsighted. let's not turn this into a philosophical debate like every other oil thread always does. most oil threads go this same route...it's like a sitcom, scripted to happen every time.

 

if you're a commercial enterprise and can run an extra 1,000 miles between changes without any significant degradation in the oil properties you can save yourself thousands of dollars per vehicle. if you have hundreds of vehicles, you can save yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars. well worth some upfront expense.

 

now, for the average daily driver, i don't know what value that holds, but it is an interesting experience. it's relatively inexpensive anyway, so it's fun for kicks if someone wants to. i don't expect everyone to operate like i do, when i start doing that, and i have, i soon realize there's other compelling interests and modus operandi than my own in the world.

Edited May 27, 2009 by grossgary

[OB99W]

I think Gary has summed up the situation fairly well. Mostly, analysing oil is helpful in determining its useful life. That's much more important to fleet owners and those running very expensive rigs than to individuals -- it can positively impact their bottom line if they stretch the oil change interval without risking the hardware.

 

There's no doubt that finding significant contaminants could be a tip to impending failure. Certain metals or fluids could point to the likelihood of specific parts having worn or are otherwise going bad. However, what would be done with that information also probably depends on ''cost'' of a breakdown. The engine in a vehicle where the consequences (financial or otherwise) of failure are high might be taken out of service and torn down a lot sooner than the one in a family's second car.

 

I suspect you'd have to be lucky for an oil analysis be very helpful in deciding about purchase of a used car. If things were bad enough, they'd probably be obvious in other ways. If something was just beginning to fail, maybe you'd get a clue -- assuming the seller hadn't recently changed the oil.

 

EDIT: Gary posted while I composed, so some of my points echo his.

Edited May 27, 2009 by OB99W

[MiniTransAm]

Well for me, I just like to see what's going on inside the engine. Higher than average numbers can indicate problems and allow you to get a handle on them earlier before they cause a major problem.

 

For example. If I had coolant in this sample, it would allow me to look for the problem and get it fixed before something like a headgasket goes and overheats the car causing more repairs.

 

We also did one of these on my wife's Sunfire and it showed over 3% fuel in the oil. I would have never known that had I not done the analysis. I'm still in the process of trying to figure out what the problem is.

 

This is also good for figuring out how long you can run an oil. Or if one oil is better than another as far a wear numbers go.

 

Also as someone stated, you can get a pump and pull a sample from a vehicle you are thinking of buying. If you get a report back that shows some problems, you just saved yourself some potential major headaches.

 

I hardly think they are a waste.

[lostinthe202]

Finding out how long you can run your oil is something that I'd be interested in. I put 500 miles a week in commute alone, so doing my oil and filter every 3000 miles has me changing my oil every month and a half and that can add up in a year. 7500 as my owner's manual suggests seems like too long so I've been doing it every 5000. But if through an oil analysis I could find the magic number, even if that number was 3000, I could save in the long run by getting more out of the motor. that could be worth 20 bucks.

[OB99W]

Finding out how long you can run your oil is something that I'd be interested in. I put 500 miles a week in commute alone, so doing my oil and filter every 3000 miles has me changing my oil every month and a half and that can add up in a year.[...]

Since you're doing relatively frequent changes, I'd suggest that if you decide to have analysis done, do it twice. Choose a time when summer heat is the worst, and a second time when winter is coldest. Oil is stressed differently during those two seasons, and it's possible for a single test to be misleading for the untested seasonal conditions.

[MiniTransAm]

Finding out how long you can run your oil is something that I'd be interested in. I put 500 miles a week in commute alone, so doing my oil and filter every 3000 miles has me changing my oil every month and a half and that can add up in a year. 7500 as my owner's manual suggests seems like too long so I've been doing it every 5000. But if through an oil analysis I could find the magic number, even if that number was 3000, I could save in the long run by getting more out of the motor. that could be worth 20 bucks.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea. You can see how your oil holds up and if you can run it longer. If you commute is mostly all highway, I can easily see modern dino oil holding up to 5000. Use a semi or full synthetic, 7500 easy. Our outback does a fair amount of hauling things in the back so I think 6500 is the magic number for me. Since I got a good report this time around, I'll probably do an analysis every 25K from now on. Just to keep tabs on things.

[lostinthe202]

Thanks for the info!

[bulwnkl]

I run annual analyses on our personal vehicles, and I also have the fleet at work monitored through analysis (not diesel semis; gasoline pickups, some SUVs, and a couple cars & vans). It's worth the money to me, and is all the more worthwhile if you plan to keep a vehicle for a looooong time.

 

For example, this UOA might tell the OP that he has a slight coolant leak. It's not chewing up the engine internals yet, but of course it will over time and as it increases. Or, maybe the elemental levels that would otherwise indicate a small coolant leak are part of the Maxlife additive package. Blackstone labs should know this if they dug through their database to find out, but that's not part of what they give you for your money. Their analyses are good given the equipment and people they have, and their service is very good, but their narrative interpretations are entirely feel-good things that are frequently telling you precisely the opposite of what's going on.

 

IF you want to really understand what's going on, go see Dyson Analysis (.com). Dyson is the best I know of that's even close to consumer priced. He has experience the other labs never will nor can. He can and has told me of issues (like intake tract leaks, failing coil packs long before a CEL is lit, internal deposit build-up, and so forth) before anything else can catch them. Dyson's service is $100 at present, but it's worth it. Dyson monitors the fleet at work, and if he was no longer available, I'm not sure I'd bother to spend our money anywhere else.

 

For alternatives to Blackstone and Dyson, check with Staveley Services or Polaris. Best way is to go through your local oil distributor (see the yellow pages).

Edited May 28, 2009 by bulwnkl

[eppoh]

Finding out how long you can run your oil is something that I'd be interested in. I put 500 miles a week in commute alone, so doing my oil and filter every 3000 miles has me changing my oil every month and a half and that can add up in a year. 7500 as my owner's manual suggests seems like too long so I've been doing it every 5000. But if through an oil analysis I could find the magic number, even if that number was 3000, I could save in the long run by getting more out of the motor. that could be worth 20 bucks.

 

 

Extending oil change intervals can be a major savings of time and money, if done correctly.

 

When I was commuting 140 miles a day, I drove a Mercedes turbo diesel and used Amsoil with the extra filter. I chenged oil religiously every year or 15000 miles, whichever came first. The oil analysis I had done prior to every change confirmed that I was in good shape and could have gone longer on the same oil.

 

The tests were 14 dollars then- well worth the savings I got from annual oil changes. The car had 272,000 on it when sold and is still chugging along with over 300K on the clock.

 

On a side note... oil analysis is pretty much standard procedure on aircraft pre-purchase inspections, and yes they are very helpful in identifying and engine that will likely not make it to suggested overhaul due to some kind of pre mature mechanical failure. It has save me from buying something I shouldn't have.