Twitch de la Brat Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I was driving my 85' BRAT, and I went to turn my fan on, and my car died. It wouldn't start for 10 minutes or so. But the thing is, I had power to my radio, my flashers and brake lights (I think I had power to my brake lights, might've been the sunlight) I was able to limp it to my ex's house, but it died as I turned on my blinker to turn onto her street. Anybody had this issue? I had my fan connected to my igniton coil, and it wouldn't turn on. The starter would turn, but there was no spark. Also, the dash warning lights wouldn't turn on, nor would the "key in ignition" dinger. I'm currently at a graduation, so I'm unable to do any testing right now, but have any of you guys had this issue, or any solutions you can offer? Twitch PS: I'm on my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yes, sounds like you blew the ignition fuse. Don't run a 20amp fan on top of that system, it's only a 15-20amp fuse to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Nope. Its not a fuse, I checked them all. Fusible links are good. Grrrr... Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Check the fusible links for a loose connection. Another possible trouble spot is the ignition switch or connection to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Did that still use the glass fuses? I have had the end caps come loose from the element on those before, as well as the holders corrode and lose contact. Everything looks fine, but a quick check with a test light will show the bad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Sorry 4x4 Welder, it has the standard ATC(?) fuses. I've got a multimeter I'm testing with. I haven't test too much yet, but I will be later, it just depends on when I work. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 I got a new ignition coil and plugged my open EGR, and I must say, It is a LOT quieter. I'll be torturing it out at work (pizza delivery, lots of start, stop stuff) on Wednesday, 6/10. Wish me luck! Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Well, it failed about 2 weeks ago. SO now after buying the "nightwagon" (87 Gl carb w/5sp d/r) the BRAT sits. I took it for a quick jaunt (500ft or so) and promptly destroyed a CV boot. SO now its REALLY parked. I turned the key on, not the engine, and played with electricals. You know, lights, wipers, fan, turn signal, anything to rile the electrical problem. Well, one by one, nothing worked, until I kicked on my aftermarket fogs. Killed it quicker than a rattler on a mouse. Then it wouldn't start. So any other idears? Cuz I'm lost. I've checked all my fusible links, the plugs between the fusible links and the fuse block, nothing. And this whole time my accesories stay on. But no spark to the ignition coil, no headlights and no dash lights. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Check your battery cable ends, pay close attention to the battery ends themselves if they are of the 'molded on" type of ends. I've had a few get loose where the cable goes into the clamp. Looks ok, but the wire is actually loose inside. Check the negative cable end where it attaches to the engine. I've had a few of those go bad from corrosion. Check the smaller positive feed wire that goes from battery to link box. Make sure it fits the tab on the link box nice and snug. I had one BRAT many years ago that had serious corrosion under the link box itself. Nasty green yucky stuff. Caused me all kinds of electrical issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Check your battery cable ends, pay close attention to the battery ends themselves if they are of the 'molded on" type of ends. I've had a few get loose where the cable goes into the clamp. Looks ok, but the wire is actually loose inside. Check the negative cable end where it attaches to the engine. I've had a few of those go bad from corrosion. Check the smaller positive feed wire that goes from battery to link box. Make sure it fits the tab on the link box nice and snug. I had one BRAT many years ago that had serious corrosion under the link box itself. Nasty green yucky stuff. Caused me all kinds of electrical issues. Check, check and check :-\ I think just to appease the electrial gods, I'll be replacing all of my old ground wires and seeing if that does anything to the problem. I'm pretty sure that it is something between the engine power and the main fuse box, but where? If I start the car and let it warm up then pull the main fuse the car will continue to run. I believe this is normal because its a standard carb engine, correct? If not that may point to my problem. Another thing I'm looking at is the aluminum wiring in these things. That stuff is notorious for causing shorts because of the thermal expansion properties it has. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 make sure the fuse in the fuse box labeled ignition/coil is inserted securely. Mine can be in place with a good fuse, but it has to have it just right for the contact. How did i figure this out? when i installed the weber, I was messing around with the choke wires and the extra 2 plugs that used to be on the hiachi grounded out and blew my fuse for coil/ignition. I put in a new fuse, but sill no spark. that was when i could see how the fuse can be sort of sideways and make no connection to the fusebox terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 make sure the fuse in the fuse box labeled ignition/coil is inserted securely. Mine can be in place with a good fuse, but it has to have it just right for the contact. How did i figure this out? when i installed the weber, I was messing around with the choke wires and the extra 2 plugs that used to be on the hiachi grounded out and blew my fuse for coil/ignition. I put in a new fuse, but sill no spark. that was when i could see how the fuse can be sort of sideways and make no connection to the fusebox terminal. Already done. And the continuity of the fusible links has been tested too. Any other ideas? Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) If I were you I would get an electrical Diagram. and since we really dont know where to start, we have to start with what we know works, and work away from there. Trust me, you can fix it without a diagram, but diags make it easier. EDIT Are go out there and make sure that you are not getting spark or fuel. test for both, if we fix one thing and it also doesnt have fuel well than thats a big bummer. Make sure the carb is filling with fuel, because it should still have fuel in the resiviour. I have mitchell ondemand, so if you want me to get you diags let me know. lets find out whats wrong before we start puting any more parts in it. Edited July 7, 2009 by beataru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 If I were you I would get an electrical Diagram. and since we really dont know where to start, we have to start with what we know works, and work away from there. Trust me, you can fix it without a diagram, but diags make it easier. EDIT Are go out there and make sure that you are not getting spark or fuel. test for both, if we fix one thing and it also doesnt have fuel well than thats a big bummer. Make sure the carb is filling with fuel, because it should still have fuel in the resiviour. I have mitchell ondemand, so if you want me to get you diags let me know. lets find out whats wrong before we start puting any more parts in it. I would be out there testing it and playing with it, but I had to take my bro in law to work. I know there is no spark, I have tested that using my radiator fan. Idk if it has fuel, I have yet to check that. I believe that it does have fuel, or it should, because the fuel pump is run directly off the alt (stock wiring pattern) It does turn over, so the wiring between the battery and the starter is still good. Twitch PS: I have yet to throw any parts at this thing, I like to diagnose before I spend any money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 http://mshoup.us/docs/fsm/EA81/83/Chapter15-Electrical_System.pdf It's for the '83 models, but it'll do for yours as they're basically the same. I'm thinking you may have lost the contacts in the ignition switch. They are old and worn after all, and the added amp draw of the lights may have took them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 http://mshoup.us/docs/fsm/EA81/83/Chapter15-Electrical_System.pdf It's for the '83 models, but it'll do for yours as they're basically the same. I'm thinking you may have lost the contacts in the ignition switch. They are old and worn after all, and the added amp draw of the lights may have took them out. I'm thinking that, but the problem is intermittent. It may be from the new ignition that was installed sometime in the past. It was dealer installed, or at least by someone who knew what they were doing, because everything looks stock. But do you know if anything else would be affected by the "On" circuit shorting out? Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 please carry a fire extenguisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 on new cars, basically everything is tied through the ign switch, on yours however, not so much. were still not getting spark right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 on new cars, basically everything is tied through the ign switch, on yours however, not so much. were still not getting spark right? Actually, everything is run through the ign switch, even the lights. (As you knew I'm sure) But not everything is run through only the "on" position of the switch. I can run radio, wipers and... Hmmm, I think that's all that will run while the key is in the acc position. And those are all that run while the problem is occurring. Which brings me to believe that the problem is either the switch, or the wiring between the switch and the fuse box. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Ok, the Cat is on the hunt here. Hopefully you have a voltmeter to check voltages with. If you don't I suggest you get one as it will really help you find the area of trouble. Since the starter works well this means the battery is in good shape. There is a seperate path for the power to tie into the accessories than the starter lead and it appears you may either have a bad connection on the main power lead to the fuse panel under the hood or there is a problem in the ignition switch area. Using the voltmeter to check for voltage drops in the wiring will show you if you are on the correct path in finding the trouble. Make sure the small red wire leading from the battery to the power panel is making good connection to the battery. If that is ok then check the voltages in the power panel and see if they are close to the battery voltages while things are on. If the voltage is low then there is a problem in the wiring to the battery. It would also be good to clean the chassis ground connections to the battery since the trouble could be there also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I Really Agree with This Idea: Check your battery cable ends, pay close attention to the battery ends themselves ... serious corrosion under the link box itself. Nasty green yucky stuff. ... But Also You Said that when you Switched ON the Halogens, the Problem Started Again... So, in order to Help you: Could you Tell More about your Subie`s Halogens Wiring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 But Also You Said that when you Switched ON the Halogens, the Problem Started Again... So, in order to Help you: Could you Tell More about your Subie`s Halogens Wiring? I wired my halogen fogs into my rear defrost circuit (Cuz I didn't need it!) via the fuse box. They are getting good connection and I didn't splice any wires, I just made a plug to go into the battery side of the fuse block. And I believe the problem is from excessive load, rather than a random wire shorting out, cuz it does it only when I add a load, such as my fog lights or I turn on my radiator fan. I'm certainly leaning toward my ignition switch or the wiring beyond the ignition switch. And since it is aluminum wiring, it expands a fair amount as it gets hot, so I may have a wire that the insulation came off and it just expands enough to get within arcing distance of a ground, so while its still hot, it grounds out, but when it cools, it breaks connection and it fine again. Just my theory. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Just throwing this out here. How old is your alternator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) And I believe the problem is from excessive load, rather than a randomwire shorting out, cuz it does it only when I add a load, such as my fog lights or I turn on my radiator fan. I'm certainly leaning toward my ignition switch or the wiring beyond the ignition switch. And since it is aluminum wiring, it expands a fair amount as it gets hot, so I may have a wire that the insulation came off and it just expands enough to get within arcing distance of a ground, so while its still hot, it grounds out, but when it cools, it breaks connection and it fine again. Just my theory. Twitch The problem you are having isn't due to a shorting condition. It is about the opposite of a short, almost (the true opposite of a short is a open connection). There is a bad connection in the power buss somewhere causing the problem. The current isn't going to ground as it would be in a shorted condition, it is being restricted due to excessive resistance in series the power supply line. The resistance will cause a voltage drop across it when current flows through it and the more load you add to the line the more voltage gets dropped across the bad connection and less power gets to the loads. Edited July 11, 2009 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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