Reprogram of ECM

[Roamer]

So I decided to take my mom's 2001 Subaru Outback to a local soobie dealer for diagnostics, as per my post from yesterday, the car when cold has no power and is on the verge of shutting off but once warmed up it runs fine, no CEL flashing or stored codes, some board members suggested that it was perhaps the coolant sensor.

 

So I get a call from the soobie dealer and he tells me that among other things that I need an Oxygen Sensor and reprogram of the ECM.

 

Now I am no mechanic by any means but I am knowledgeable enough about cars, and personally I have no idea how an ECM would need reprogramming and why I would be told that I need a oxygen sensor if no CEL is popping on?

 

Any thoughts? Also I was told that I need a multifunction switch ($302 with labor), wtf is this thing?

[Legacy777]

Temperature related issues typically tend to be the coolant temp sensor. They run about $20 from one of the online subaru dealers.

 

Not sure about those other things the dealer mentioned. I'd request they show you a TSB about the reprogramming, and why the O2 sensor needs to be replaced.

[ron917]

and why I would be told that I need a oxygen sensor if no CEL is popping on?

 

 

Like most other sensors, the oxygen sensor can be bad and still not throw a code. Specifically for the O2 sensor, they get "slow" before going totally bad. They feed wrong data to the ECM, but the data is still within normal range. No way for the ECM to know it is bad unless you have redundant sensors with voting software in the ECM. Most people won't pay for that in a car (airplanes, maybe).

 

No CEL does not mean no problems. But you should ask how they diagnosed the sensor and everything else.

[Suzam]

It's possible that the O2 sensor needs replacement at 123k but they usually throw a CEL if they are that bad. I had one that would clear its CEL after a day or so and not show up again for months. The car ran fine and unless your MPG has dropped it's most likely still functioning.

 

Don't know about the ECU, but like Josh just said, $20 for a CTS and a couple of minutes with a wrench may cure all you symptoms.

[OB99W]

Temperature related issues typically tend to be the coolant temp sensor. They run about $20 from one of the online subaru dealers.

Here's the previous thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99926

I came to the same conclusion about the CTS in my post #5 in that thread.

 

 

Not sure about those other things the dealer mentioned. I'd request they show you a TSB about the reprogramming, and why the O2 sensor needs to be replaced.

More to the point, in the earlier thread Roamer said that the problem was immediate upon cold start. Since the ECU runs open-loop and ignores the O2 sensor until things warm up, how could that sensor be the cause of the complaint? The O2 sensor (presumedly front one) might indeed be sluggish, but something else (probably the CTS) is the likely culprit.

[Roamer]

I appreciate every ones input, you see now that I am older, I have no time to dedicate to diagnosing my cars, all throughout my high school and college years, I loved working on all my cars and giving them tune ups, and oil changes, but my mechanic skills stop there and my usual mechanic has retired so I decided to give the dealer a shot b/c the cost of repairs is not an issue as much as getting it done right and the first time. But the dealer gave me an estimate of like $1,500 to fix minor things and I had no issue with it but then when I started to question the diagnosis he really had no definitive answers, so I told him to hold off until I give him a call back.

 

What also got me ticked off is that he said my car needs an oil change and filter service when I gave it one not even 3k ago, he also couldn't tell me why the mechanic wrote on the ticket that the ECM needs reprogramming.

 

The problem is that I am an attorney so most people assume that I am loaded and that I know nothing about cars, if I believed that the dealer really pin pointed all my issues I would have gladly forked over the money, but he just didn't convince me, I am certain that he didn't let the car cool down before diagnosing it. But like the old saying goes if you want something done right, just do it yourself. What's even worse is that I am going to pay a diagnostic fee of $130 to just get my car back in the same condition!!

[johnceggleston]

What's even worse is that I am going to pay a diagnostic fee of $130 to just get my car back in the same condition!!

 

 

now you know why some of us don't go to dealers.

 

i think the ecm reprogramming is a scam. if you want to use the dealer to do this i would do one item at a time and ask before hand what you can expect in the way of change in how the cars runs as a result of the service or repair. this will give you leverage when it does nothing. or it does nothing more than disconnecting the battery and resetting the computer.

Edited June 4, 2009 by johnceggleston

[Qman]

I appreciate every ones input, you see now that I am older, I have no time to dedicate to diagnosing my cars, all throughout my high school and college years, I loved working on all my cars and giving them tune ups, and oil changes, but my mechanic skills stop there and my usual mechanic has retired so I decided to give the dealer a shot b/c the cost of repairs is not an issue as much as getting it done right and the first time. But the dealer gave me an estimate of like $1,500 to fix minor things and I had no issue with it but then when I started to question the diagnosis he really had no definitive answers, so I told him to hold off until I give him a call back.

 

What also got me ticked off is that he said my car needs an oil change and filter service when I gave it one not even 3k ago, he also couldn't tell me why the mechanic wrote on the ticket that the ECM needs reprogramming.

 

The problem is that I am an attorney so most people assume that I am loaded and that I know nothing about cars, if I believed that the dealer really pin pointed all my issues I would have gladly forked over the money, but he just didn't convince me, I am certain that he didn't let the car cool down before diagnosing it. But like the old saying goes if you want something done right, just do it yourself. What's even worse is that I am going to pay a diagnostic fee of $130 to just get my car back in the same condition!!

 

The term "reprogrammimg" may only mean that they are going to clear all previous codes. Diagnostic fee? I would suggest that you find another dealer or Subaru specific repair shop.

[ShawnW]

It should be a reflash with the Select monitor 2.

 

And if you complain about the $130 charge they will probably knock it down. Also, make them say it will fix the problem you are having if they cant say it will then replace the CTS like advised above(not perticularly easy btw), disconnect the battery overnight, reconnect and try to start car. If its gone you solved it yourself. If it isn't you might be better having them flash it.