Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 the car clunks sometimes when going around a corner. we think it has to do with hte rear end or lsd. are the clutches in it going bad? does it just need new lube in it? what kind of lube is correct for it. i would like to fix it before it goes totally out on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 heres a bad picture of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The clutch pack LSDs do that, its actually pretty normal. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 so what is the best way to treat this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 that's not a stock LSD in the picture, so you converted it? what exactly is it doing around turns? have you jacked up the rear and spun the tires or drained the fluid to see if there are other signs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 You don't have an LSD. You don't have a center differential either. What you do have is a Hydraulic clutch pack at the rear of the transmission that send the power rearward. Yours is binding, probably from a worn out solenoid or possibly just from stuck clutches. But either way, your binding around turns is in the trans, not hte rear end OK? FYI, the name for the tranny is the 4EAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 What's the year, model and mileage of the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 as far as i know this is the stock part that caem in the car from the factory. the cluncking sound seems to be coming from the rear of the car. it ressembles the sound of a cv joint slipping and catching. but they seem fine when i checked them. i have done nothing to this car except put a used coil pack on it change the oil and brake pads all the way around. i had heard at first that these trannys had problems. but a guy told me it sounded more like the rear box. i do know it not a differential. i do not know if it is a limited slip differential with clutch packs in it. i dont have a book for this car or a owners manual. it does say 6 al on it some place i do remember seeing that the first time i looked info up abouthtis thing. i can do some more looking to confirm. but i need to get more uniform answers as to what it really is. and where the problems lie at. when i get it started and going again. i can even get a video of the sound. it is a 92 legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 is it an auto trans? how many mil;es? you could have torque bind, as mentioned. if it's an automatic, look for the fuse holder under the hood passenger side near the fire wall with FWD on it. put any fuse in there and see if your problem improves. if it is a manual trans, please disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 it is a auto. i dont remember seeing a fwd fuse but i wasn't looking for a fwd fuse when i looked. i was looking for a fuel pump relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 it is a auto. i dont remember seeing a fwd fuse but i wasn't looking for a fwd fuse when i looked. i was looking for a fuel pump relay. this fuse holder is not with the other fuses. it does not protect an electrical circuit. it is a diagnostic disconnect switch for the awd transfer clutch in the rear extension housing of the transmission. when the transfer clutch goes bad, you get torque bind when turning. LOOK FOR THE FUSE HOLDER MARKED FWD. passenger side near the firewall. little black thing about the size of a zippo lighter. the cap has FWD on it but it may be missing the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Are there any other pieces of information about this car that you could pass on? I am in no way an expert (others here are), but I think that the only early-90's Legacy that came with the 3.90 ratio was a turbocharged model. You have not mentioned that it has a turbo, or used other "magic" words like Legacy SS. If this is a regular Legacy L or Legacy LS (and has not been tinkered with), I believe it should have a 4.111 ratio rear differential. A possibility exists that someone swapped in a 3.900 diff to replace a 4.111. If they did this without swapping in the matching-ratio tranny, all sorts of mischief (i.e. - damage) can occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 i found it. i will put a fuse in it when my car gets running again. hopefully tonight. ha ha. it did start a few minutes ago. but that could have just been gas in the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 no tubo no symbols that even say L. but when looking up parts i have to put L in as the submodel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 i copied this number off of the pic of your diff above. it was a very common rear diff, used from 84 on brats up thru 94 on legacys, w/ & w/o turbos. 27011aa151 says nothing about lsd. plug it in here: https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 i have already stated that i know what a lsd is. it is a limited slip differential. even i can tell that this is not a ford 9 inch rear end with clutch packs in it. if you would post the proper wording for this thing. i would use that word. it is a word. and you understand what i am talking about. my car has a problem. if you would like to help me fix it great and thank you. if you want to play word games please tune to the pbs channel in your city. seasame street should be on sometime. i am not here for arguing over the usage of a word. i got this word elsewhere and is the only word i know to call this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 the rear diff is called the rear diff. Apparently you have an open diff, as in its not an LSD. So just call it a rear diff. Does sound like torque bind, so insert the fwd fuse and see if it goes away. If it goes away with the fuse in, then you will know the problem is with the center diff in the trans. If it doesnt, then you have other problems -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 You don't have an LSD. You don't have a center differential either. What you do have is a Hydraulic clutch pack at the rear of the transmission that send the power rearward. Yours is binding, probably from a worn out solenoid or possibly just from stuck clutches. But either way, your binding around turns is in the trans, not hte rear end OK? FYI, the name for the tranny is the 4EAT. maybe this is what got me to just calling it a lsd instead of the rear diff. this guy says its not called one. i dont really care what its called. i know it could lead to different fixed or diagnosis. but i dont care about word game. i posted a pic of it so you guys would know exactly what i am dealing with. i am going to try here in a few minutes to get it started again. i need to jump the battery first. stupid battery anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) I posted in your other thread that generally, the LSD (Limited slip differential) has a big shiny tag on it that says, of all things, LSD. Without that tag, it's best to assume it isn't an LSD, and is just a regular old fashioned rear diff like the one sitting under anybody's car, storage unit, whatever. For a definitive test, jack up one of the rear sides so ONE rear tire is off the ground. Spin the tire. If it spins freely, then it's an open diff, end of story. If it doesn't spin, or slowly starts gaining resistance, then it's either a clutch LSD or a viscous LSD (VLSD). The output to the rear end is via a clutch pack, there is no differential between the front and rear drivelines on that transmission. Here's a pic of a self-disassembled output clutch pack: FWIW, if there is a fuse in the FWD fuse holder, that very well may be the source of your noise. The owner's manual and the transmission shop manual very clearly state that you should only put a fuse in there for testing purposes, and under no circumstances should you drive with that fuse in place. The reason is because that clutch is constantly applied about 10%, and that applying fluid lubricates several bearings in that assmebly. Running without that lubricant will destroy the clutch pack and those bearings. Also FWIW, if you ask for advise, and someone clarifies the name of a component for you to help avoid confusion, you should thank them. It's not a word game, it's called a proper diagnosis. You should know that. Edited June 6, 2009 by 4x4_Welder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) let me put it this way. until it is actually verified or not how can anyoen tell ifit is or not. if i have to test it to be sure? so my description and wording could be correct for all anyone really know what is inside of the case. am i right? i thought so. a proper diagnois would be to check that to make sure what it really is. one person posted that this si the wrong gear ratio for my car. well does that say anything? it coudl ahve been swapped out. or rebuilt or who knows what. so until i verify it. those of you who sy its not this or its not that may be wrong unless the cases are different. and from what i have read elsewhere i dont think they are. its the internals that make it this or that. so if you are talking about proper diagnosis and word games then you probably need to think again. if someone wanted to help they would say this " those numbers dont add up to a lsd. nor does that gear ratio for that certain car.. before i can give you a proper diagnosis please verify if you have a lsd. you do this by turning one tire and see if the other tires spins the same way or a different way. then a proper diagnois would be able to be given" so since i have not verified. because no one has asked yet. and i was going to verify before i went much further. no one knows what it is and it is just a word game. since i have had this car for three years and it hasnt blown up withhtis problem i would say its probably not that big of a deal. but i would like to be able to fix it. so lets get down to sugjestions before i turn on pbs for those who need it. 4x4 welder how is your bumpside? give up on it for the sub or what? havent seen you post over there in a while. Edited June 6, 2009 by Fordman because i wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Please bear with me a minute. Let's please look at What we know: Your original post mentioned noises while turning and that you suspected the rear end and/or LSD. Subaru offered/offers both clutch-type and viscous-type limited-slip-differentials. These LSDs were available in the type of rear differential that you posted (an R160, BTW). LSD-equipped rear-end units can make odd noises and cause weird sensations from the rear end of the car while turning. A failing open differential can also cause weird noises and sensations. Your Legacy uses an all-wheel-drive system that connects power to the rear wheels using a AT-style clutch-pack that is known to have all sorts of issues (plate binding, drum grooving, control-solenoid failing) that can also cause rear-end/rear-wheel issues while cornering. No indication from you that, to your knowledge, the R160 rear-end unit or the transmission have been changed. If the final drive ratio in the front and rear final-drives do not match, much trouble can occur. What I think that we know: There is no external evidence that this R160 rear-end unit contains an LSD. Not terribly important in and of itself, as (apart from the probability that it is just a semantics issue) someone may have installed one anyways (a popular mod), or the cover may be from a different rear-end unit (not a likely scenario). Given the information that you have provided, your car did not leave the factory with that R160 rear-end unit under it. (Or, at least, not that cover.) What I don't know: What is actually going on. We are diagnosing from a distance, relying on information and responses from you so that we can try to help you. I can't speak for others, but I have neither the time nor inclination to play "tease the newcomer". I will make time to help someone who needs help but is not practiced at supplying information that we may need. (Others may vary...) If the R160 contains an LSD. If having an LSD matters to your problem. If the R160 really has a 3.900 final-drive ratio. If it is really a 3.900 ratio, whether the transmission's final drive ratio matches. If the transmission is or is not currently in FWD mode via the FWD fuse. If the "POWER" light on the dash blinks when you first start the car. (If it blinks 21 times, the transmission electricals have a problem.) So: In my opinion, what we don't know as of yet is greater than what we do know. Any information/clarification that you can provide will help us help you. Personal attacks in lieu of information do not help you. It turns everybody off except those that enjoy flaming. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 i agree completely and i am usually on another site and i have to ask others what engine trans they have from time to time. i forgot to post that. until someone had asked me. right now i can not verify the rearend in this thing. when i can verify what it is and what i have i will be posting it for sure. i am going to try the fwd fuse thing as a test of course. but i still think it is either in the rear or in the trans. that is the best i can say. the car has for sure what i know is 92 legacy (L) i have to guess. it is a mpfi engine (2.2) i think. with a automatic transmission. the only sticker on it says 4wd or maybe it is awd. i think it is a awd. becuase it is not changeable from 2wd to 4wd. so it must be a awd or full time 4wd. the car came from a (uesd) i think car dealer in littleton colorado. and the owner i got it from was my neighbor who got it from his neighbor who came from iola kansas. reciepts in the glove box said something about replacing a right axle or cv joint before i got it. and something else. i forget right now. one wierd thing i read and this said that the viscous 3.90 could be had in a 91 legacy. this web site also went one to say as already stated here that the word lsd would be on the sticker too. i do not know abotu any swaps or mods that may have been doen before i got the car. so since i dont know for a fact about this cars history. i will need to do some verifing of the rear end before we go any further. but first i will have to get it started so i can move it to a place where i can jack it up. personal attacks: i am not interested in personal attacks and i wish they would stop. they are putting this thread off subject. i am a adult not some punk kid who doesnt know squat. i put in that it might be an lsd. i didnt say that it was set in stone and that i knew. i think you understand that. and thank you for seeing that. i will post again when i know more about the test and verify what is what for sure. when i first got this car 3 years ago i had heard something about these transmissions had problems. and this car has had this problem the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) as you said, the rear diff problem is second on your repair list. you don't need the drive train if the engine doesn't run. but not to worry, if it is the rear diff they are cheap and easy to find. lsd 3.9 rear diffs on the other hand are a different story. Edited June 6, 2009 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 i just talked to the dealer. and gave them the vin to look up parts for my fuel pump. they can order it. but dont have it. it was 384.99. i better jump right on that deal huh? but i asked them about the rear end. this is what they said. the turbo and manual transmission cars for this year. 1993 not 1992 like my wife told me. came with the 3.90 lsd. the automatic cars came with either the 4.11 or the 3.90 as a regular rearend. so it is not from the factory a lsd. so does anyone have a good wire from the pump to the tank plate? i will do something with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 ok i got it started by being an american. itapped ont he top of the fuel pump plate with a hammer. we droveit around the block a few times with the fuse inthe fwd position. it did not make the clunking. i then took the fuse out and was able to get the clunking to come back. so i am looking at a solinoid or stck clutch packs inthe rear of the transmission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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