idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) I installed a 2" lift on my XT6 and the axles have some nice vibrations coming out of a turn. These are store bought aftermarkets (not my choice, on there when I bought it). Think MWE axles will do better? I have a set so I'll give them a try. I do have the spacers for the front to reduce the angle of the axles if I need to. How long before these things self-destruct? Can I at least drive it for a week or two to work before I get to fixing it? Edited July 2, 2009 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 was it just a spring lift then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 was it just a spring lift then?i don't know. i bolted extensions on top of the struts. XT6 doesn't have springs, it has air suspension, so i guess it's not a spring lift but same basic idea probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 sorry, should have been "suspension lift" and yes, that fits yours.... the "ea82 width" axles are longer, so can withstand more of a susp. lift, but will definitely wear sooner. with RX springs on my Brat, I went through them more often, but I beat the snot out of them... I suspect yours should last longer, but you'll be susceptible to aftermarket rebuilt ones that aren't of the best quality..... The MWE rear axles I had lasted well..... I never had a chance to install the front ones before I yanked all the soob stuff off my Brat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 thanks. pardon the newbness, i don't know much about lifts. the "ea82 width" axles are longerEA82 axles are longer than XT6 axles? i was thinking it was all about angles, i wasn't even thinking about the length problem. maybe i'll convert to EJ front hubs and axles and see what that does. with RX springs on my Brat, I went through them more often, did yours make noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 sorry, I meant compared to ea81 width axles.... so yours should last longer than an ea81 axle in the same configuration.... my Brat made lots of other noises, so it was hard to tell if it was coming from axles if your axles were rebuilt ones, then there is the chance that by extending them slightly, you could be hitting a slight wear groove from prior use, and it could make noise, and make the front end feel a bit squirelly.... I always just figured axles as a wear item, and drove them until they exploded..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 XT6 and EJ axles are interchangeable. the hub splines are identical. I put an ER axle through an '01 legacy hub/knuckle, and it fit perfectly! EJ axles are like 10mm longer, IIRC. I'd grab some OEM EJ fronts from a junkyard or something, put fresh boots and grease on them, and put them in. they'll probably last longer than any other option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Chux - crack that's right, i was thinking hubs had to be swapped first. that's good news, I already have EJ axles ready to go. my Brat made lots of other noises, so it was hard to tell if it was coming from axles if your axles were rebuilt ones, they're store boughts, doubt they're high quality. make the front end feel a bit squirelly.... they definitely have that feel, i was wondering what that was. so that's a bad axle or the angle/length issue (or both)? drove them until they exploded..... really? did they make much noise before exploding? i'm wondering if they gave notice since i drive long distances i'd rather not have random failures. funny thing, i've had one brand new explode one day after installing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Chux - crack that's right, i was thinking hubs had to be swapped first. that's good news, I already have EJ axles ready to go. they're store boughts, doubt they're high quality. they definitely have that feel, i was wondering what that was. so that's a bad axle or the angle/length issue (or both)? really? did they make much noise before exploding? i'm wondering if they gave notice since i drive long distances i'd rather not have random failures. funny thing, i've had one brand new explode one day after installing. when you do a susp lift on these, it makes the joints pull apart further, and sometimes you can hit a wear groove from prior to rebuild, if it was on the other side potentially. as the axle extends, if the ball bearings run right on the edge of the groove, it will have a tendency to fall in and out of that ever so slight groove, giving you that squirrelly feel.... oh yeah, plenty of noise before failure. popping, cracking, jerkiness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 as the axle extends, if the ball bearings run right on the edge of the groove, it will have a tendency to fall in and out of that ever so slight groove, giving you that squirrelly feel....i've never messed with CV joints before, but a member of the XT forum did a pretty neat "fix" to tighten up his axles: http://subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8956&hilit=axle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 XT6 and EJ axles are interchangeable. the hub splines are identical. I put an ER axle through an '01 legacy hub/knuckle, and it fit perfectly! Tried to once fit ER axles in early hubs from a turbo Legacy and it was a no-go. Will work in this application if the inner grease seal is removed but ER axles and Gen 1 inner seals are not the same. Maybe the newer hubs went with the larger grease seals. I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 someone has to say it I wanna see this lifted XT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Maybe the newer hubs went with the larger grease seals. I don't know.the newer and older axles are interchangeable if you knock off the ABS tone ring, so they should be the same. i have axles and hubs at home to try first, thanks for the heads up. Edited July 2, 2009 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 XT6 and EJ axles are interchangeable. the hub splines are identical. I put an ER axle through an '01 legacy hub/knuckle, and it fit perfectly! Tried to once fit ER axles in early hubs from a turbo Legacy and it was a no-go. Will work in this application if the inner grease seal is removed but ER axles and Gen 1 inner seals are not the same. Maybe the newer hubs went with the larger grease seals. I don't know. what was a no go about it? the beck/arnley part# for the bearings is identical for ER and all 5x100 EJs. and I think the same is true for the inner seal (possibly outer, too. I don't remember). the hubs look the same. I've got a hub off a '92 legacy that I slid onto the ER shaft as well, and it seated just fine. well. I'll know soon enough. I'm preparing to put EJ knuckles/brakes on my '6. planning to use the ER axles. also, I've had some pretty nasty axles (clicking, binding, etc.) and rescued them with a good cleanout and fresh grease. I doubt switching sides really did much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 When I went and replaced the front suspension in my XT6, I initially went with axles and hubs from a Legacy turbo model. The XT6 cv axles won't seat fully in the turbo knuckles because the inner grease seal was a tad too small. Recall I took the XT6 axles to a machine shop and had them turned to same diameter of turbo stuff. Easy way is to check to see if the XT6 and the Legacy share the same inner grease seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) When I went and replaced the front suspension in my XT6, I initially went with axles and hubs from a Legacy turbo model. The XT6 cv axles won't seat fully in the turbo knuckles because the inner grease seal was a tad too small. Recall I took the XT6 axles to a machine shop and had them turned to same diameter of turbo stuff. Easy way is to check to see if the XT6 and the Legacy share the same inner grease seal. hmmmm.....I'm at work now...so I'm not sure what part numbers I found. I do know that an EJ bearing will fit perfectly an in ER knuckle.....and I thought I figured that out due to a superceded subaru part # that was the same between EJ and ER..... maybe just use the ER seal in the EJ knuckle?? Edited July 3, 2009 by Numbchux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 found what I was thinking of.... my post on the xt boards: http://subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10356 punch line: OEM number in my 4 year-old parts book: 9062580020 looked up that number on 1stsubaruparts.com, and it listed the superseded number: 28015AA070 which is the same as EJ stuff. these are for the OUTER seals. but yea, part number for the inners is different. but I suspect you could use the other seal. as it will definitely mate up with the hub just fine. and now that I think about it, the hub I was test-fitting had blown bearings, so it's possible that either the seal had already been removed, or was shot. I shall investigate into my parts pile tonight when I get home (I've got an extra EJ knuckle, pair of ER knuckles, and a couple sets of bearings/seals around......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 I slid a newer EJ axle into an XT6 hub. I'm not sure what to look for though, I'm not really familiar with this stuff. The EJ axle snugged right up to the wheel seal. What's the difference between inner and outer seal? The outer seal is the one that rides against the axle? And I did grab some pic's of the lifted XT6. I also have a height switch, will install that shortly, and it'll look much better with the 06 Forester XT Turbo wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 other way around. outer is on the outside of the car. inner is towards the axle/trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Gary....hope you don't mind that we've totally hijacked your thread disclaimer: I wrote this over the course of about 2 hours.....as I kept trying things and searching for part numbers and dimensions......so it's kind of a Train-of-thought post. Bear with me.....it's worth it!! so, I just went downstairs and looked. the inner seal is definitely different. I don't have an XT6 seal on hand, but I did have a Beck/Arnley 0523586 (front inner, bought for a '92 legacy L, but good for most EJs). That seal was just a hair (probably 2-4 mm) too small in both ID and OD. so, here's the specs on the XT6 one from rockauto.com: Shaft Size=2.283" Housing Bore=2.992" Outer Diameter=3.001" Width=0.307" if we can find these same dimensions for the EJ one, we might be able to find a seal from something else that will fit and allow the crossover. it does mean that EJ axles would work with ER knuckles, but the seal just wouldn't be seated tight against the CV cup. alright, just found some more info. Beck/Arnley part# 0523586 on the Timken interchange chart is the same as Timken #225673. go back into rockauto with that part #, and it comes up with a few subarus (only listed as FWD.....but if it's an interchange with the B/A part number, it should work for all), and also some Toyotas (corolla, paseo, etc.)......look it up under the toyota application, and you find that same part number under the BCA/National brand.......with dimensions!!!! Shaft Size=2.205" Housing Bore=2.874" Outer Diameter=2.883" Width=0.295" I was able to reproduce those dimensions on a couple different interchange searches (geo prizm, the toyotas, and a few subarus). so, after some work with a calculator and tape measure (boy I wish I had a caliper....). those dimensions appear to be almost dead on. so, for an EJ axle in an ER knuckle. we're looking for a seal with the dimensions: Shaft Size=2.205" Housing Bore=2.992" Outer Diameter=3.001" and for an ER axle in an EJ knuckle.... Shaft Size=2.283" Housing Bore=2.874" Outer Diameter=2.883" then I found a Timken "Seal spec guide" http://www.timken.com/zh-cn/products/Documents/SealSpecGuide7533.pdf for the first conversion....I found a couple that are very close: 2.205 2.992 2.998 0.193 710108 2.205 3.071 3.082 0.295 225678 I think with the width, the 225678 is the way to go. for the second, I found this one: 2.283 2.874 2.878 0.335 710439 not perfect....but I think that's as close as it's going to get..... I think in the morning, I'll see if I can get my hands on either of these locally..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 the EJ axle (2001-ish, new style) butted right up against the XT6 seal on the front hub. according to your research, what isn't quite right about it? i'd like to go back and have a look, but i'm not sure what i'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I had the lift improperly installed so that would explain some of the CV vibrations and racket. I corrected it this morning and the wheel camber was noticeably better and the axles rode much smoother, no more noises....for about 3 miles.....then..... 10 miles into driving the axle was going BONKERS. Mad vibration, steering wheel lightly rocking, i honestly thought a wheel was about to fall off. These are fairly new axles - only a couple years old with very few miles. Kind of odd that they got this bad after "fixing" the lift camber. Did running them 50 miles out of camber like that ruin them or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I just picked up the 225678 seal (710439 will be a bit longer getting here...sometime next week). and it looks to be a perfect fit. exactly the right size for the ER knuckle, but the inner diameter looks identical to the EJ seal I have. unfortunately, I don't have a spare EJ axle to actually test fit it on, but it is the same size as the EJ seal, and it won't slip over the step on the ER axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oh great, thanks for bumping this thread chux - I figured out partly why I had bad vibrations. Most of it was due to the improper installation of the lift. Then it got REALLY bad, like I thought a wheel was falling off. Looked and neither front axle had pins in it:confused::mad: Installed pins and wouldn't you know - smooth as teflon. This car saw one interesting maintenance period, must have been a concentration camp for subarus. Both front sway bars complete gone. One rear sway bar bracket disconnected, front strut bolts completely loose, turned by hand, head lights stuck open, CV pins both missing, rear struts were hit with a grinding wheel and painted and the air bags were all scuffed up from the wheel, center console loose and probably broke, lid broken, steering column and dash surrounded shattered to bits, drivers window doesn't align, windshield wiper was attached with one screw loosely and rotated all over the place, front fog lights removed and wires dangling such that the connectors are ripped off, hood release broken...and more I won't bother you with, it's amazing how many things were wrong or done wrong on this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snofool Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I just picked up the 225678 seal (710439 will be a bit longer getting here...sometime next week). and it looks to be a perfect fit. exactly the right size for the ER knuckle, but the inner diameter looks identical to the EJ seal I have. unfortunately, I don't have a spare EJ axle to actually test fit it on, but it is the same size as the EJ seal, and it won't slip over the step on the ER axle. I purchaced this seal and it did not fit into the er knuckle it was too big. Anyone have a different part # for this conversion? ER or xt6 knuckle and ej Impreza fwd axel. Unless I have the knuckles machined to the o.d. of the 225678 seal? Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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