aba4430 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I was driving to work this morning on 288 (Chesterfield, VA) @70 - 75 mph and entered I-95S. At this time, I started hearing a faint knocking; looked at the dash and saw the temperature gauge pegged out. Quickly got in the slow lane and managed to exit on 61B at Chester. I safely maneuvered the Brat into an Exxon gas station and turned off the engine. Got out and saw little steam coming out around the hood. Checked under the hood and the radiator cap was cold. Opened the cap and there was no coolant. Then I walked around the back, and saw the bumper was coated with coolant. Looked closely, and noted a heater hose ruptured. Got the Brat towed home and it is parked in the garage. While waiting for the tow truck I cranked it, the engine turned, but felt sluggish. There is no oil leak, and no odor of burnt oil. I got replacement hose, but am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the engine did not suffer any damage. I mean the gauge was pegged out. I must have driven a total of 15 miles and do not know when exactly this happened. The hose was last replaced in 2004, and I have checked it by feel periodically, but obviously missed something. Well I will look at it tomorrow, check the oil (most likely will change oil and filter it is less than 1500 miles old), replace the heater hoses; might also replace the radiator hoses – these feel OK, but are also 5 years old. I am not sure whether the water pump has survived; will find out. Other than a worst case head gasket failure, are there any other items I need to be on the look out for? Thanks, aba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 It is likely fine. The knocking you heard was cylinder detonation due to excessive temperatures. I had the exact same thing happen once about 100 miles after doing a HG job - I had no choice but to drive it till I got to a freeway exit as there was no place to pull out. By the time I got it parked it would only go about 15 MPH under full throttle. I replaced the hose, filled it with coolant, and ran the engine for another 20,000 miles before I pulled it for an overhaul. It suffered seemingly no damage at all - fortunately these engines are almost as much oil and air cooled as they are water cooled so to some extent the oil will dissipate the heat from the bearing surfaces and the block being aluminum helps to dissipate it as well. If it had been an EA82 you would be doing HG's almost for certain. This is exactly why I avoid that engine. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 More than likely the replacement heater hose you got required you to "cut-to-fit". Make sure after installation that it is not rubbing against the steering linkage. You can rub a hole in one very quickly if it is touching. Fill it up with coolant and make sure and burp the cooling system properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 Thanks guys. Getting ready to go out, get some radiator hoses and take care of this. When I first got the Brat in 93, I replaced the heater hoses with a red hose (reinforced layers) that I had bought at PepBoys. That lasted me almost 10 years. I replaced that with standard black hose (Advance) in 2004, when I did my clutch etc. Yesterday, went to PepBoys and asked for the red hose and they did not have it in the 5/8" ID, but had the black one. It is a reinforced three layer (black, green middle (corded?), black inner) hose. Looks pretty good (Part is INSULONE 036687173522) The existing hoses did not rub against anything. That happened once when I owned a 81 hatchback. However, moral of the story is to get good quality hoses, and replace them at a reasonable frequency. I should have replaced my existing hoses earlier, even though checking did not reveal anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Good to hear. And when your done, get some pictures of the BRAT and post them up. We love Brats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Update: This is after a while, but here it goes: Replaced all the heater hoses along with a clamp to keep them together. The bypass hose was also replaced. Replaced upper and lower radiator hose. Replaced the two coolant (small diameter) bypass hoses and the thermostat control valve that is between one of the two small diameter hoses and the water pump bypass hose. While I was at it, replaced an aftermarket PCV valve with Subaru OEM one. Am not sure whether this is related, but my hot air system has come back to life and the car seems to idle better than before. Put everything together yesterday, so far not so good. I cannot add coolant without it all leaking out from the radiator over flow tube. I am learning the hard way. Initial thoughts were that exhaust gases are leaking into the cooling passages and causing a pressure situation as there is pressure built up in the system. However I do not think this is the case. I believe there is some serious air in the system that is expanding with engine temperature??. I initially installed the cap after topping the radiator. This is when I noted the coolant spraying out and the pressure situation. Then I left the cap off after topping the radiator and let the engine idle until the thermostat opened up (upper hose felt hot). Then continued to add coolant until could add no more. Thereafter, I stopped the engine and put the radiator cap on. I wanted to go for a short drive after @15 mins, but as soon as I started the car, heard the classic gurgling sound in the dash. Got out of the car to check the coolant level, and saw coolant spraying out of the overflow tube. So a bit stumped! Am letting the car cool now and will restart it after removing the cap. May also drive it on ramps. Will wait until the thermostat opens and continue to add coolant while increasing rpms periodically. Will provide an update during the course of the day, but adding coolant should not be so tricky. The engine sounds good and I have not seen oil in coolant or vice versa. Am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that I do not have any issues with the HGs. Any further leads appreciated. aba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 That does sound like a blown headgasket, the exhaust is pressurizing the system which is why the coolant is blowing out past the cap. With the cap off you sometimes wont notice this, other than some bubbles, but with the cap on it will do what you described. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Does it shoot a 2' gyser of coolant out the radiator fill neck if you leave the cap off? If so you definitely have a blown head gasket. Under normal circumstances nothing but a few gentle air bubbles will escape from the filler neck. I always leave the cap off when I'm starting an engine newly filled with coolant. This allows me to see how the level reacts. It should not go anywhere. Sometimes the level drops, and sometimes it will surge a bit but it never really boils out unless the head gaskets are blown. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 I just went and bought another g of coolant. Will go out and work on it after it stops raining. No, it does not shoot out coolant. Just gurgles out - did not even do that when the cap was off, unless I filled it too quick. However, when the cap was on, and I relieved pressure with it warm/hot, it flowed out freely through the overflow tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 So far no luck. Can someone confirm for me whether the heater hose that connects to the water pump bypass tube goes to the lower of the two heater core connections on the firewall? Just want to confirm my connections are proper. Thanks, aba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 The heater core can flow either direction - it really doesn't matter. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 sorry for the brat troubles ... with the cap off , do you see a good "flow" while looking in where the cap sits ?your radiator could be plugged up not allowing a free "flow " . does the electric fan come on when the motor warms up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks for the quick responses. The connections then are fine. I have the WP bypass hose connected to the bottom connector. The other hose from the cross tube sits naturally a bit higher and is connected to the upper firewall connector. The radiator is like brand new. I am sure it is my head gasket. The fans do come on with the engine hot, as checked yesterday. I just drove the Brat up the driveway, turned and came back into the garage, so it is out of the rain. It sounds excellent and idles even better than before, but is blowing white steam out the tail pipe. Initially I thought it was the carb cleaner I had added prior to start-up, but it is continuing to blow white steam, so I am sure it is the HG now. Plus the overpressurization with cap on, and bubbles and overflow out of the radiator withoutn the cap on etc. Well gives me a chance to buy an engine stand now, or from what I have read for the past 45 to 60 minutes, you could replace the HGs with the engine on the car. The car is too good with everything working, to waste. Now to muster up some courage and tackle the HGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 EA81 head gaskets are really easy. Afternoon to pull the heads and another to install them afer having them gone through (if you need that). I never pull the engine for just head gaskets. Make sure to replace the intake manifold gaskets with OEM gaskets only - torque to 12 ft/lbs. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Hello Folks, I have not posted in a while, but to make a long story short, my head gaskets have not been replaced as yet. The Brat sat for months, then I moved to Pensacola, FL (new job) in July, 2010. Moved my family and the Brat to Pace, FL less than 2 months ago, after living in PNS for a year. Am ready to tackle the HG's now. Have ordered a Felpro kit from Advance, but might stay with my new enough OEM exhaust gaskets. Based on advice here, will order new intake and exhaust manifold gaskets from Subaru, rather than use the Felpro's in the kit. Just a couple of (more) points/questions towards a sanity check: Initially, I noted a lot of gurgling etc., due to possibly exhaust gases blowing into the cooling passages. As part of towing my Brat (Penske car carrier), I topped the radiator with coolant, checked the oil level (was good and clean with no traces of coolant) and started it. Noticed no bubbles in the coolant due to exhaust gases. Also drove a round the driveway (less than a minute, a few times) to let the movers pack, load our goods. However, checked the oil level one time and noted that coolant had mixed with the oil, giving the oil a milk shake appearance. Anyway, drove up the car carrier etc., and made the trip safely to Pace, FL. The truck has been sitting in the garage since we arrived. As before, the engine sounded excellent, when I started and moved the truck around a bit. Could the truck not have any HG issues, i.e. could it be just the IM gaskets? Is it possible for coolant to get into the engine oil through the IM gaskets? Is it possible for exhaust gases (?) to blow into the cooling passages without the HG blown? Not trying to take a short cut as I already have the gaskets on order. Am wondering, whether I should drain the coolant and oil (need to do this anyway), check the compression on each cylinder after changing the IM gaskets. If the compression checks out OK, may not be head gaskets?? Thx, aba4430 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Folks, Will be removing the heads tomorrow. Advance cancelled the Felpro gaskets and I ordered a Beck & Arnley set (032-2580). It has the following components: 2X cylinder head gaskets 1X exhaust pipe?? 2X exhaust manifold 2X intake manifold 2X valve cover 4X valve cover grommets 4X valve stem seals 1 water outlet The Felpro kit appears to have a few additional parts. Since I am doing the head gaskets for the first time, do I need only 4 valve seals? Thx, aba Edited September 16, 2011 by aba4430 clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Heads are out. Cannot tell which gasket failed, the intake and head gaskets appear intact visually. However, the right side most likely was problematic based on some milkshake liquid and gunk visible in cylinder number 3. Am ordering intake/exhaust valves for replacement as well, and will drop the heads off for cleaning machining, once received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Update: Got the heads back from the machine shop yesterday. Hydro test was good. New valves, new exhaust valve guides (intake guides were fine according to the shop and they did not replace; and 4 intake valve seals. They said the exhaust valves did not use a seal. This stumps me, as the parts manual clearly indicates a total of 8 seals for the engine. However the B&A gasket kit included only 4 seals, so I had ordered 4 extra ones. Is it true that the engine uses only intake seals? Also replaced the valve spring keeper keys. Am attaching a few pictures of the completed heads. Will clean all remaining parts today and start assembling tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Looks Clean, it will be a Good Engine once you put it all together... I Kindly Suggest you to Change the intake manyfold's Gaskets with Original Subaru ones during the install. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I have gone through a lot of EA81's and so far none of them has had seals on the exhaust valves (including the EA81T). Some aftermarket gasket kits include 8 seals but I would only use them on the intake side. BTW NICE looking heads! I don't even see any large bridge cracks:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aba4430 Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Folks, Put everything back together and all is well. However, had to take the L side head back to the machine shop as the outer spring for cylinder number 2 was installed backwards (you can see it in the picture in the earlier post). Am glad I caught this prior to the install. The most nerve wracking part of this project was getting the push rods positioned correctly. Took my time with this and after the first couple, the installation became natural. Started the truck up yesterday and idled it to operating temperature. Left just DI water in the cooling system. Brought it back in the garage and let it sit overnight. Today, drained oil and filter and redid the torque on the head and intake manifold bolts, and adjusted the valves again - following the regimen laid out in HTKYSA. Will torque the head bolts after 300 miles again and once more after another 1000 miles. The valves are good after today's adjustment. Probably overkill, but I don't intend to do this anytime soon again (I hope). Also installed a new hill holder cable, Denso PW20TT plugs and a new battery. Feel bad as the gas in the tank (1/4 full) was at least 2.5 years old. However, after a few tries, it fired up. Drove around the sub-division for a couple of rounds and then took it on the road. After a gas fill-up, went for a 15 mile spin around town, keeping below 50 mph (no more than 3000 rpms). The engine does feel a bit tight. Now to replace the water with coolant tomorrow, and to source some 185/70-13 tires. Thx, aba Edited December 27, 2011 by aba4430 Minor correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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