Sometimes just won't Start! A mystery. Any ideas?

[JGromada]

This board has been great to me so let's try again.

 

I have a 98 OBW (AT). I had a problem with starting which i eventually solved with a new (rebuilt) starter. I have an occasional starting problem which seems a little different.

 

Last year when i had my problems I replaced both the starter and battery (Sears Diehard). Up until recently its been fine, but recently it seems to have a problem if i try to restart.

 

I went to an autoparts place and they did a starting/charging analysis for me. i attached the printout. It basically told me a few things:

 

• The battery has good voltage and proper CCA
  
• The charging system is working ok
  
• There is nothing that is draining the battery
  
• Battery voltage does not drop down too far when starting
  

So i am left with a slightly defective starter, but i tried to see if something else might be the problem. I noticed that the non-start seems to be more common if the car was just driven. Too much heat for the battery? BTW even when it won't start battery voltage seems ok. But no click or anything.

 

Now here's the thing the car will start if i jumpstart it! go figure

Anyone else with any ideas? or if you have another question let me know and i will try and answer it. thanks

 

Right now it seems like this car is not totally reliable although it will always start with a jump or if i let it sit long enough. On a cool day it seems like i can run an errand and it will restart ok. But if its hot like it has been much more of a problem.

Edited July 13, 2009 by JGromada

[JGromada]

one little tidbit i forgot to mention. Car has 170,000 mi on it and currently has a code for Oxygen sensor that i need to deal with. Don't think the Ox sensor is related.

[nipper]

Replace the starter contacts. I am assuimng you mean the car doesnt crank as opposed to cranking and not starting.

 

 

This is why i am against rebuilt starters from anyone but subaru. The starters rarely fail, but the electrical contacts do get tired.

 

 

nipper

[Cougar]

Try cleaning the battery connections using a battery post cleaning brush. The problem could also be with the inhibit switch, that controls power to the starter solenoid.

[JGromada]

Replace the starter contacts. I am assuimng you mean the car doesnt crank as opposed to cranking and not starting.

 

 

This is why i am against rebuilt starters from anyone but subaru. The starters rarely fail, but the electrical contacts do get tired.

 

 

nipper

Wow i would have thought a rebuilt starter would have new contacts in it. There is less than 10,000 mi since i replaced the original starter with a rebuilt one.

 

When the car doesn't start I don't hear anything, no click from the solenoid or anything. Its not like I hear the starter either.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The problem could also be with the inhibit switch, that controls power to the starter solenoid.

my only question about this is why does it start up right away then if i do a jump start? Where is this inhibit switch located?

 

thanks btw

[Rooster2]

I have bought and used several rebuilt Subaru starters from parts stores. One lasted many years, a couple of others have lasted only a year or two. The nice thing about a rebuilt starter from a parts store is that they are generally sold with a life time guarantee. The starter is a pretty simple "diy" type job, so no big deal swapping out a starter for free using the guarantee.

 

I bet if you install another rebuilt, your problem will be solved.

[JGromada]

I have bought and used several rebuilt Subaru starters from parts stores. One lasted many years, a couple of others have lasted only a year or two. The nice thing about a rebuilt starter from a parts store is that they are generally sold with a life time guarantee. The starter is a pretty simple "diy" type job, so no big deal swapping out a starter for free using the guarantee.

 

I bet if you install another rebuilt, your problem will be solved.

 

My only question is why when it won't start will jumping it get it to start right away?

[nipper]

My only question is why when it won't start will jumping it get it to start right away?

 

 

because there is a hell of a lot more power there. This extra boost gets past the resistance in ther worn contacts.

 

Eventually It wont crank anymore at all.

 

 

nipper

[Cougar]

The inhibit switch is on top of the transmission I believe. Before messing with that I highly recommend you clean the battery cable connections, even if they look ok. Doing that will most likely clear the trouble.

[Gloyale]

2 words:

 

Ground cable

[JGromada]

thank you everyone, you've given me some stuff to go look at. the last thing in the world i wanted to do was have a mechanic just throwing stuff at it when these are all things I can personally deal with.

[bheinen74]

oem starter lasts about 10-15 yrs (170k miles avg) on my experience with subarus. parts store reman lasts about 1-2 years, and comes with lifetime warranty.

 

Who cares about a lifetime warranty if it only lasts 1-2 years. I know i dont want a starter going out on my in middle of nowhere Iowa in the winter time in a blizzard.

 

Go get a starter from Subaru OEM rebuilt, or find a OEM one on a junkyard car with less than 125k miles.

[JGromada]

so let me make sure I understand. its the contacts inside the starter that go bad within a year?

 

But these can be replaced right?

 

let me search and see if there is a procedure written up in here someplace. It seems kind of crappy if a starter gives out within a year.

[nipper]

You are assuming they were ever replaced. Rebuilds are very shoddy sometimes, as the replace only what they find what doesnt work. Sometimes they just clean them up and resell them.

 

nipper

[Olnick]

When the car doesn't start I don't hear anything, no click from the solenoid or anything.

 

This may point to something other than the contacts. You should hear the solenoid click first--then if the contacts are bad (pitted, burnt, corroded) the starter gets no juice and doesn't turn.

[nipper]

This may point to something other than the contacts. You should hear the solenoid click first--then if the contacts are bad (pitted, burnt, corroded) the starter gets no juice and doesn't turn.

 

 

I had one that would click once and never make a sound after that. If you werent listening for the click you didnt notice it.

 

 

nipper

[Olnick]

I had one that would click once and never make a sound after that. If you werent listening for the click you didnt notice it.

 

 

nipper

 

My point exactly. If you were trying to determine bad contacts you would listen specifically for that initial solenoid click.

[nipper]

My point exactly. If you were trying to determine bad contacts you would listen specifically for that initial solenoid click.

 

 

Except it is random when it happens, so it is hard or impossible to do.

 

nipper

[Olnick]

Except it is random when it happens, so it is hard or impossible to do.

 

nipper

 

I don't understand your point, nipper. Can you clarify?

[Fairtax4me]

First thing you should always do is make sure the battery and starter connections are clean and tight.

 

Hook up a VOM to the ignition wire on the starter and verify that it gets power when the key is turned.

 

When it does this, if you turn the key back to lock then turn it again does it then start? Or do you have to let it cool before it will start?

[nipper]

I don't understand your point, nipper. Can you clarify?

 

Go out to your car and turn the key normally. Do you hear things click if your not listening for them? It just becomes background noise, so you pay no attention to it. Now go out there and listen for everything that clicks (you may or may not hear them, but there is the main relay, a few others, maybe the fuel pump whiring, maybe not). If the failure is one in 100, or even one in 50, you wont hear the click all the time. I caught it only once out of many anoying failures, and even then it did not register as the starter, it just registered as one of the relays doing their things.

 

nipper

[Olnick]

So, JGromada, any progress with your problem yet?

[JGromada]

hi sorry i was away this past week. But it was cool out and my daughter was using the car. No problems encountered. i had cleaned the battery and starter terminals. I will report back when i have some more information. thanks everyone!

[JGromada]

Ok here is an update. The car went to my favorite mechanic and he agreed it was not the battery after i did another battery swap. He immediately took the starter off and proceeded to check out the starter. He took it apart and noticed the terminals were severely pitted.

 

He mentioned the same thing that some others said here. Avoid no name rebuilt starters. In his opinion they may just replace the specific part of the starter that caused it to fail and don't really fully rebuild them. In my case it was just a little more than a year.

 

He did highly recommend getting a Denso starter if i can find one.

 

Thanks everyone for your help. This site is the best!

[Olnick]

Is that the car's original starter that your mechanic took out? If so, he should just replace the pitted contacts while it's apart--a few minutes work and a coupla' dollars in parts and you're just fine. Those OEM Denso starters are pretty rugged.