HLA Chatter Sequence of Events, Opinions Please

[lostinthe202]

'96 OBW, 2.2L, 5spd, 205K

 

I've decided to keep my wagon. It's a total road-dog, it's been the victim and victor of a couple of fender benders, it's worn inside and out.... and I love the thing. It's easy to work on (mostly thanks to this place ) and I know it's condition, not to mention nobody wants to meet my price due largely to the fact that they would be out of their mind to buy it for what I was asking for it! Sadly, I can't drive it long distances on a regular basis as the seats have given me Sciatica, but I'm going to hang on to it as the spare vehicle and for the day when I can ditch this 100 mile commute.

 

Anyway...

 

It's got lifter tick. I've tried the easy stuff, oil changes, lighter oil, seafoam. Now it's time to find the problem. As always, my time is at a premium and while I've been doing lots of reading, I would like to run by everyone the trail I'm going to take.

 

1st - pull HLA's and bleed to make sure the collapsed ones will pump up.

 

2nd - if one or more HLA's wont prime, replace

 

if they all pump up with no problem and no obvious obstructions...

 

3rd - pull oil pump and check for loose screws, backlash and replace as necessary.

 

4th - drive it 'till the valves burn up and replace!!!

 

seriously though, is there a fourth thing?

 

 

Thanks!!

 

Will-

[Log1call]

From the manual...

Valve train noise (clacking sound). Operate the engine

for approximately one (1) hour before diagnosing HLAs

as the problem.

b. If the rocker shaft relief valves are plugged, the rocker

shaft oil pressure will increase during low engine

temperature operation This could result in the HLAs

being forced part way out of the rocker arm sockets. A

clacking sound may be produced which is similar to

collapsed HLAs. Engine misfire may also occur during

this condition.

If the relief valves will not hold pressure, the HLAs may

collapse, again producing a clacking sound.

[idosubaru]

on the very few that i've seen the HLA's were seized. and by seized i mean they wouldn't budge even under a vice. i'm sure i could have Supermanned the thing to get it to move but i just trashed them and replace at that point.

 

mizpah engineering or whatever that goofy named place is called sells rebuilt HLA's for like $5 each, well worth it as they're totally annoying to disassemble yourself.

 

will - it should be obvious what the issue is. if it's oil pump/supply related it should affect the entire engine. on older gen stuff the ticking changes a lot and "moves" and is just generally variable a tiny bit.

 

if it's an HLA it will be noticeable which side it is. that should save you the effort of yanking both sides at least.

Edited July 22, 2009 by grossgary

[lostinthe202]

Log1call,

 

Thanks for that quote, I'll check out the rocker shaft relieve valves while I'm in there.

 

Gary,

 

When you say a bad oilpump/supply will effect the whole engine, what do you mean exactly? The engine runs beautifully, though there is a bit of a flat spot at low rpm's (like under 2k) which I've attributed to the valves not being quite in time because of the HLA's, but i suppose this could be the misfire Log1call is referring to.

[idosubaru]

When you say a bad oilpump/supply will effect the whole engine, what do you mean exactly?

i was addressing your #3 comment. if it's oil supply related then all the HLA's are subject to that, that's what i meant by the "whole engine". So you should here the HLA noise on both sides and it's more likely to change and be a bit variable.

 

A bad HLA is very consistent in my experience and is only heard on one side.

 

Back, in the day I've used ATF mixed in with the oil to free them up. Not that I'm recommending that, but I've done it.

[OB99W]

Here are a couple of links that might help with diagnosis:

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/KnockingInfo.pdf

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/Valve07MayEW.pdf

[Rooster2]

i was addressing your #3 comment. if it's oil supply related then all the HLA's are subject to that, that's what i meant by the "whole engine". So you should here the HLA noise on both sides and it's more likely to change and be a bit variable.

 

A bad HLA is very consistent in my experience and is only heard on one side.

 

Back, in the day I've used ATF mixed in with the oil to free them up. Not that I'm recommending that, but I've done it.

 

 

I have used an old time oil additive product by the name of Rislone to remove the clatter in old American iron V-8s. Worked really well. With 205K miles on your odo, I wouldn't recommend a tear down on an engine with that many miles. If it were me, I would drive it "as is" until the motor dies.

 

I know what you mean about the bad cloth seats in OB wagons. I have a 99 that wears my back side out on any trip beyond an hour's drive. Drop in a set of leather seats from a Leggie Limited model from a wrecking yard. The leather seats are so much more comfortable and supportive. My wife's 98 O

BW has the leather seats. She is the lucky dog to have the better seats.

[lostinthe202]

Thanks for the links 0B99W, I actually do have that PDF book marked. I don't think my plug wires are loose, but I'll check it out anyway.

 

Gary,

 

I see, I do only have noise on one side. I mentioned the oil pump because in a post I made some time ago about HLA's Qman said that an HLA that won't pump up is often caused by a failing oil pump. He suggested checking the back-lash and screws. I did loctite the screws when I did the T-belt at 160k so I'm not really suspecting it, but...

 

With 205K miles on your odo, I wouldn't recommend a tear down on an engine with that many miles. If it were me, I would drive it "as is" until the motor dies.

 

I don't really consider pulling the rocker assembly a "tear down". It doesn't seem that involved. As for the oil-pump, it's true that I have another 15k before the belt is due, but that's only about 6 months with the way I put miles on this car so that's not that far off really.

 

I know what you mean about the bad cloth seats in OB wagons. I have a 99 that wears my back side out on any trip beyond an hour's drive. Drop in a set of leather seats from a Leggie Limited model from a wrecking yard. The leather seats are so much more comfortable and supportive. My wife's 98 O

BW has the leather seats. She is the lucky dog to have the better seats.

 

Yeah, I considered a leather interior. But it seems to be the angle that the seat is at not so much the lack of support. I have the same problem in other vehicles. I'm also a bit shy about dropping that kind of cash on something that may end up being just as bad. I did drive a buddy's legacy with leather seats and it didn't seem different enough. Hard to say unless I spend some time with them.

[idosubaru]

Will, if it's just one side then it's one (or two) HLA's on that side causing the problem, not the oil pump. Which is what I would expect anyway.

 

If you do suspect the oil pump, that's much easier though so worth a shot if you have the time (which i think you don't?!).

 

As for the seats, if you think that having them angled back would help it wouldn't take much to make some brackets to extend the front "higher" than it currently is and make the seats lean back a bit. The way subaru seats bolt in the front...well, period, lends itself to pretty simple fabrication to change the angles.

 

With 250,000 miles the seat cushions are probably in poor shape too, huh?

[lostinthe202]

I would actually want to drop the front or raise the rear, but probably just as easy to do as you suggest in the back.

 

205k miles, but yeah the driver's seat is definitely looking out for better weather.

 

Yes, spare time is not something I have a lot of. But I have another vehicle now so I can take my time on this.