baccaruda Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 My '86 has a 4" lift kit and WRX front springs on Legacy GR2s. I recently realized that a clunk in the front end was the sway bar hitting its bracket on the control arm because the springs effectively make the strut assemblies longer than "just +4"" I am working on a mod to drop the sway bar mounts on the crossmember which would pull the outboard ends of the sway bar away from the control arms.. but then it might drop below the cover plate. I'm interested in whether anyone else has tackled this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If you are lifted 4" and planning to stay that way toss the sway bar in the dumpster. The sway bar is going to try to STOP the wheels from articulating independently - it wants them to be level with each other. I removed the sway on my wagon many years ago and with the added couple inches of offset from the 6 lug wagon wheels you can't even tell. Besides - I'm not looking for it to take corners at high speeds. The point of the lift is for clearance and articulation - the sway bar goes against the purpose behind the lift IMO. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 The sway bar's staying on. I want a tight handling high-clearance rig and I do al my articulating with my words instead of my car . thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If you are lifted 4" and planning to stay that way toss the sway bar in the dumpster. The sway bar is going to try to STOP the wheels from articulating independently - it wants them to be level with each other. I removed the sway on my wagon many years ago and with the added couple inches of offset from the 6 lug wagon wheels you can't even tell. Besides - I'm not looking for it to take corners at high speeds. The point of the lift is for clearance and articulation - the sway bar goes against the purpose behind the lift IMO. GD Andy's rig is more of a "poser" rig, for lack of my ambition to think of a better word Its pretty much a street beast. I think the most hard-core wheeling it will ever see with him as the owner would be a B-grade service road.... No offence Andy, but we all know you baby that thing.... When I looked at it It looked like the answer lies in either new endlinks, relocating the bar's position to the mounts on the car, or a combo of both. OR, we could attempt to make brackets to adapt an EA81 unit to fit, so it would mount to the radius rods instead of the trailing arms... But it prolly wouldnt give you *quite* the handling you are looking for... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 At least try driving it with the bar off - I noticed no difference. With the added leverage of the body being higher and the added mass of the wheel/tire combo the bar became useless - it didn't do anything ON the road and was only a hindrance OFF the road. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 is it a standard EA82 bar? or an XT6 one. I've got clearance issues between the XT6 sway bar and XT6 control arms on my loyale. and it's lowered about 3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 It's an XT6 bar... I might grab a standard one to see how it fits, I guess. I could disconnect the endlinks too. I've got ideas to play with moving the bar down and maybe forward a tad. It would have to be lowered to be moved forward because of how it's routed under the crossmember and next to the power steering lines. Poser? haha. How about "exhibition?" Yeah, it's a street beast. I'll wheel it hardcore when I retire it from street duty but that's a few years off. B-grade service road is actually about what I have in mind for it while it's the only car I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 No swaybar on EA82 = Pure joy There is an OLD thread somewhere in which I condemned the removal of swaybars. I officially renounce that psosition and advocate for the complete removal of all swaybars on anything close wheelin rig. It actually makes the lifted rig run smother on the road, since the *bounce* of one wheel no longer upsets the other one. Less overall shimmies and shakes, espescially going around a corner that has bumps in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I could try that for a week - Spokane's roads are certainly full of bumps and potholes. My intention when building the car was to have it handle tighter, though. I'm curious as well about the tempering of the sway bar - I might decide to heat and bend the appropriate parts to clock the endlink receivers a little further forward. If I did this, would I be correct in thinking that I'd need to retemper the whole thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm curious as well about the tempering of the sway bar - I might decide to heat and bend the appropriate parts to clock the endlink receivers a little further forward. If I did this, would I be correct in thinking that I'd need to retemper the whole thing? You are correct - you can't heat and bend spring steel like that. It will just turn to crap. Having it re-tempered might be cost prohibitive unless you can do it yourself but I am somewhat doubtful that you have the necessary equipment to temper something that large..... Before you go to heroic lengths though - do a test without the thing. Think about the physics involved here - the body is a lever and the sway bar has to oppose that lever action. Being lifted the body weight is now higher - the lever is thus longer and it will take a much larger sway bar to resist the leverage action of the body. Add to this that the wheel/tire combo is now heavier and pulls DOWN on the bar with more force due to gravity...... both of these together turn the once-barely-adequate sway bar into an extraneous appendage with no real function other than making it harder to change axles. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Rick, that's a great point. I have 20mm XT6 sway bars on the front and the rear but I added the lift kit, larger tires, and WRX springs all at once. I'll take it out this weekend and see what the difference is, or if I even notice one. If I *do* notice a difference I will then look into local options for getting it tempered. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Be a MAN... Take it off and leave it off. If you want conereing then get a conering car. When it comes to cars you get one or the other, but not both. Either it cruises or it zips. This is due to the nature and physics required for the fields of play to be met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Please refer to rule #.. uh, all of them 'cept #15 doesn't really fit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Obviously the XT6 bar has more of a chance of doing "something" than my stock EA81 front sway (only) had. I'll be interested to hear your results. As for it not being *able* to be built with good handling - that's just total crap. This isn't a lifted truck - it's still lower than most SUV's out there and could easily be built to handle if that's what he want's. While I agree that a sway bar isn't necessarily the best solution out there there are other ways. There are speed sensitive electronic strut systems employed by some of the high-end automakers today - they can stiffen just one side in a turn. I believe Mercedes has such a system. The vehicle can be made to stay 100% level in high speed turns without any sway bars at all. Air suspensions can also do similar things. Sway bars are simply old technology and they have a detrimental effect on the off-road ability of our similarly "old tech" independent suspension systems. It's just about how badly he wants it. He could definitely have both if he really wanted it. This discussion is about whether or not any stock sway bar will do what he wants and what he must do to make it fit *if* it will suffice for his needs. Being he isn't taking it off-road in the immediate future there are good reasons for him to want it to handle half-way decent on the road. I know what you mean about cornering Andy - the difference between my 91 SS and the 93 LS wagon I got for my mother is increddible. I can take corners at 100 MPH in my SS (stock suspension!) that are scary in that LS wagon at 80. As far as I know the only difference are the springs and the SS's big sway bars. It makes a HUGE difference and that's the reason I drive the SS and not my lifted wagon as a daily GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Please refer to rule #.. uh, all of them 'cept #15 doesn't really fit here. Trust me dude I can relate. Do you know how hard it is for me to a see a dirty and flash rusted undercarriage with all new stuff holding it up. If I could have I would have spent a month putting my lift in I would have. I would have taken one peice out, clean paint and re-install. Then I would under coat the whole thing. Which I still may end up doing any way. But I had to jump on the oportunity. I mean just look what I did with the engine. And I know you have seen my tool box I have after all I do have obessive compulsive personality, and borderline personalty. But the point remains, that when you come out of the box, you have to do out of the box things. You came out of the box when you lifted the suby, therefore don't try and put it back in the box, or make a box that will fit it. Just go with it. But if your dead set on getting that sway bar back in there, we can take a look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Trust me dude I can relate. Do you know how hard it is for me to a see a dirty and flash rusted undercarriage with all new stuff holding it up. If I could have I would have spent a month putting my lift in I would have. I would have taken one peice out, clean paint and re-install. Then I would under coat the whole thing. Which I still may end up doing any way. But I had to jump on the oportunity. I mean just look what I did with the engine. And I know you have seen my tool box I have after all I do have obessive compulsive personality, and borderline personalty. But the point remains, that when you come out of the box, you have to do out of the box things. You came out of the box when you lifted the suby, therefore don't try and put it back in the box, or make a box that will fit it. Just go with it. But if your dead set on getting that sway bar back in there, we can take a look at it. Geez, you guys need to give Andy a break. It only took him 5yrs to lift a Subaru. He is making progress!! For what you built it for I would consider leaving the FSB on. The urban beast would benefit from it. Edited August 7, 2009 by Qman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ken, I can take it, it just means I get to dish it out later and it only took me 2 years to get my Subaru lifted/5lugged/EJ'd because I did it all at once while moving 4 times (don't try this at home kids!)... it just feels like 5 because I never "do anything" with it or post pics. I'll give it a shot without the sway bar and I'll see about modifying the way it mounts if/when (probably "when!") I put it back on. Might cook up some end links with rod ends and some threaded rod so I can adjust their length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W. Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I don't know, I.ve tried em both ways. My 88 GL Turbo, 3" lift, 5 bolt XT & Leg. mods, is mostly on hgwy. To much sway to suit me, I put on the XT bar in fr. & plan to try the XT rear. I'm workin' on quick release Fr. bar links, like the big boy 4X4s use, just smaller scale. Thanks for the chatter guys. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would try to keep the sway bar in the stock position. If you are serious about keeping it, look into fabricating longer endlinks. My street warrior also rocks a front sway bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I would try to keep the sway bar in the stock position. If you are serious about keeping it, look into fabricating longer endlinks. My street warrior also rocks a front sway bar. Isn't that a trailer queen? I'll agree with Tex. I can look into fabricating some longer endlinks for them since I got parts to use for mock up purposes. I'm wondering if ones twice the length of the factory ones would suffice for a 4" lift..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You really can't leave it in the "stock" location, its attached to the crossmember which is now 4" lower than stock, so the bar is still in the stock location relative to the lift... The bar is hitting the tie rods IIRC from when I looked at it, I think it needed to be rotated a bit to clear, so new endlinks would have to do that... BUT my memory fails me this time, I cant remember exactly what we talked about doing... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 My car's control arms (XT6) has the receivers about an inch inboard compared to the sway bar itself. Not really great for the bushings... I've been thinking about getting the control arms lengthened 1" to help get the camber neutral or a tad negative; that would also shove the endlink receiver out 1" too. Might just get the receivers moved though as I'm not sure if lengthening the control arms would affect the handling adversely. I was thinking to grab a bunch of endlink receiver parts from the junkyard and make a few sets in a few different lengths to see what works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 My car's control arms (XT6) has the receivers about an inch inboard compared to the sway bar itself. Not really great for the bushings... I've been thinking about getting the control arms lengthened 1" to help get the camber neutral or a tad negative; that would also shove the endlink receiver out 1" too. Might just get the receivers moved though as I'm not sure if lengthening the control arms would affect the handling adversely. I was thinking to grab a bunch of endlink receiver parts from the junkyard and make a few sets in a few different lengths to see what works best. I think you are on to something... Lengthening your control arms by about 1" would give you better camber and make the Legacy axles fit better, as well as possibly solve your sway bar issues. Or, you could just cut the sway bar mounts off and move them 1" outboard and it would be a lot less work... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I have an extra pair of XT6 control arms that I could maybe hand over to you at WCSS? or Evan's Creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 looking at where the bar is hitting the control arm in my loyale, I wonder if the sway bar mounts are further forward, relative the control arms, on an XT6.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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