98sub2500leg Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 I lubed the o rings on the tester and re ran the test again, it is still peaking at 180psi. I am confident I am getting an internal leak on that cylinder (#4). The tester is 15 years old. It's a Sunpro, and I only used it one before, but kept it packaged and in cool storage. The fact that I am getting the one side to consisently hold at 180 tells me its working. I decided earlier that the left head has to be also be removed and worked. I'm taking it to another shop this time. This shop does valves, the last one seems to just do machining and pressure testing mostly on American made cars. The motor is just about ready to pull again (3rd time). The thing that makes it unmotivational is draining the coolant and oil. This time I plan on draining 90% of the oil. Not down to the drop since I am not removing the oil pump or pan this time. The coolant has to be drained fully and still then it gets messy. Everything else is what I consider quick & easy to remove. I'm hoping the machinist didn't mill off too much material and then the piston hit the valves. Seems likely that if the valve on that side would have had interference, there would be major damage. The fact that it peaks at 180 seems to indicate it has a slow leak but he machined and pressure tested it. If he overmachined the head then I can see it having piston slap and slightly being off as it is. Oh well I will find out in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 YOu generally don't want to "Torque the crap" out of any bolt on an engine. Even on the crankshaft steel threads can still strip out. Or the bolt can stretch or crack and snap off at a later time. Use lock-tite, and only tighten to manufacturer torque specs with a torque wrench. Bull. Unless you are the incredible hulk, you WILL NOT strip the crank threads or the bolt. I have used breakers wioth a 3 foot pipe for a cheater and leaned as much force as I could intop them and they DON'T strip. The crank is some pretty hard steel. The manufacturer spec is 180 foot pounds, which is Torqueing the crap out of it. And with the EJ tendancy to wobble on the keyway, the tighter you can possibly get that pulley the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Bull. Unless you are the incredible hulk, you WILL NOT strip the crank threads or the bolt. I have used breakers wioth a 3 foot pipe for a cheater and leaned as much force as I could intop them and they DON'T strip. The crank is some pretty hard steel. The manufacturer spec is 180 foot pounds, which is Torqueing the crap out of it. And with the EJ tendancy to wobble on the keyway, the tighter you can possibly get that pulley the better. Yes, it would take some major torque to break that 22mm bolt. 180 ft lbs is quite the torque. The bolt head is labeled grade H. Can't find specific conclusive data on it, but seems it is specifically hardened and designed for crank & spindle applications and is expensive. About 30 years ago my parents bought me my 1st car which was a 73 Mercury Capri (back 27 yrs ago. My unsuspecting parents bought it not knowing the bozo who sold it to them overtighened the crank bolt and the end of the crank sheered off in the pulley. The guy welded the pulley back onto the crank directly just to be able to sell the car. After I got it, it drove for a few days then the weld broke-go figure. Had to buy a new engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Yes, it would take some major torque to break that 22mm bolt. 180 ft lbs is quite the torque. The bolt head is labeled grade H. Can't find specific conclusive data on it, but seems it is specifically hardened and designed for crank & spindle applications and is expensive. H grade steel is nothing special. It usually means it is an alloy designed for use in hot environments, such as on an engine. And because of that it is usually more susceptible to breaking when cold. It depends on the type of steel used in the crank, but I've seen it done. Use thread lock, and torque to manufacturers specs, then you're guaranteed not to have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwernerwi Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 What's the update here? I have to say...I would really like to know, since I have the same problem right now. However, when I pour a very small amount of fuel into the throttle body it will run...seemingly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) As posted earlier, timing was off (crank pulley not cam pulleys), which then ruined the heads. Since my last head was oil starved I just used the starter to build oil pressure. After I confirmed oil was flowing to both cylinders I then tried to start it by cold cranking the starter. Since the crank pulley was off timing relative to the position of the 4 cams that led to 2 bent valves. I'm on try #3, sorry for not updating, I pulled the engine again. This time it came right out after the 2 nuts & 2 bolts were out. I went to the hardware store, got some new chain for 4 lift points (short pieces about 6" long each). I am using forks as the upper support for the weight then clamp down some steel strut(approx 15") long each. I have bolts through each side of the steel strut to provide a way to attach the chain (1 bolt on each side of the steel stut-x2 struts and 4 bolts total). Nut the chain on to the bolt, quick link, then turnbuckle, then quicklink to another short piece of chain to engine. Using 4 separate turnbuckles gives very fine adjustment. I also use an angle gauge on the forks to help preposition them, but that isn't really necessary with the turnbuckles. I have used 2 support chains before and have had a heck of a time with this because of the points of attachment to the engine for removal never give a 100% balance, plus your dealing with a pitch issue. Separation was quick & smooth once the pitch and side angle were tuned in. I have pictures, but not downloaded from the camera, will try to upload later. I took the heads off, the valves on the right(passenger side) 2 valves definitely hit the pistons. Sent them into a reputable machine shop who is familiar with Subaru's (not all are). Just got a call they are ready. Took a while as I dropped them off back on Aug 11th, but he had to order 2 new valves and not sure what else yet. I will know more after I pick them up this weekend. Still have to acquire new head gaskets & belt. The guy who worked on it has a friend who works on Subaru's and believes he has a cam lock tool I can borrow. Not really sure if I need it, I know there is a lot of conflicting info out there regarding this issue. The article in Endwrench recommends to use it. The machinist recommended not to use silicone on the cam caps. I was puzzled why Subaru added a dab there on each cap. I can't see what purpose it serves. He also inspected and verified the earlier 1st seized (oil starved) head which did have the HG on correctly. Since I had the head machined he showed me the imprint of the HG on the head which showed it was on correctly. The oil passage was unblocked as well as the smaller ones. Possible there is some contamination floating in the crankcase. This is still a mystery at this point. The saga continues. To the last user, trace back this thread from the beginning and read all the posts and follow the same troubleshooting steps recommended. Let us know how it goes and good luck with it. Edited August 22, 2009 by 98sub2500leg corrected typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If you haven't seen it already, the piece entitled ''Assembling 1997 And Newer Engines'' on pages 24-25 of http://www.endwrench.com/current/summer03/InsiderInfoEndFall03.pdf might be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Thanks OB, it is good reading. Good detail on the cam reinstallation. I had another job to take care of but just dropped in the heads, and cams. I was inspecting the last intake gasket (which was new) and noticed exhaust gases from one end of the oval on the intake to the bolt cutout. A short section but it does look like it failed. Also in another area, but not quite as bad. Not sure why this would be occurring. I have heard some use copper spray on them. Has anyone had this problem before? The surfaces look all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Got it all back together, the drivers side compression reads 180 & 180, the passenger side reads 160 & 160. Haven't started it yet, still have the coilpack & crank sensor unplugged. Cranked the starter at least a dozen times for about 15-20 sec/cycle. Unscrewed the the lower valve cover bolts on the passenger side to check for oil in the cylinder, no oil yet. Drivers side cylinder does have oil, but that is not conclusive since the oil fill is on that side. The start cycle sounds like it should (not like the last time around). I'm confident it will start right up, but need to verify oil in the passenger side cylinder. The last time is was pouring out and I know the pump is good. I pulled the dipstick, cleaned it, reinserted it and have splash oil up the dipstick. I will try the MMO oil. Any input at this point would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allenharveydale Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I had the article printed out from before, there was a great write up with great color pics. Yeah the more I have been thinking about it the more I believe it to be the timing. Currently trying to remove the front cover this time without having to pull the engine the 3rd time (yikes!). Got the rad. fans out but only have a 22mm long socket only a short socket will work without removing the radiator. I am resigned to the socket wrench with extension jammed to the ground while cranking the starter. If there is a better way let me know as that seems to barbaric of a method for removing the crank bolt but on the other hand a better option than removing the engine again. Get a chain vise grip! I bought a cheap one at Princess Auto while I was in Canada for $8 and it has paid for itself twenty times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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