speedometer quit and engine stalls at idle

[tjay460]

1997 legacy outback

189,000 miles

2.5l

manual transmission

 

My speedometer was bouncing and now it has quit all together. The engine will also die or idle very rough after driving approx 2 miles. It also has low power. If you shut it off and try again it will run like a top for another 2 miles. The only dtc code is P1507. When I clear it it comes right back with a check engine light after driving 2 miles. Someone told me to replace the neutral switch on the transmisson for the idle issue but that the speedo issue is separate. I think it is funny that both started at the same exact time. Stranger things have happened though. Anyone had this? Thanks

[EVOthis]

As you mentioned I personally would start off with replacing the neutral switch..common problem, It prob. wouldnt hurt at that mileage to give the IAC a good cleaning also...

[njdrsubaru]

for the speedometer.. you will need a new VSS2, located at the bellhousing on the passenger side of the trans

[OB99W]

[...] I think it is funny that both started at the same exact time. [...]

While a problem with either the neutral switch or the idle air solenoid control valve can trigger P1507, neither should cause the speedo to quit. On the other hand, a VSS (vehicle speed sensor)-related problem can cause the speedo issue and trigger P1507. A separate code for the VSS isn't always triggered.

[Legacy777]

Fix your speedo issues. They are most likely the cause of the idle issues.

 

The ECU does some weird stuff without a VSS input.

[tjay460]

Here is an update. I replaced the neutral switch and it has improved my situation. Engine will not die or idle rough. I noticed that the speedo was bouncing between 10 and 20 mph and the car ran like a top. Then the speedo stopped altogether again and shortly i got a CEL and P1507. Is there a simple way to check the VSS to differentiate between a bad speedo or bad VSS? Neither one is cheap and I don't want to be wrong. Thanks!

[johnceggleston]

Here is an update. I replaced the neutral switch and it has improved my situation. Engine will not die or idle rough. I noticed that the speedo was bouncing between 10 and 20 mph and the car ran like a top. Then the speedo stopped altogether again and shortly i got a CEL and P1507. Is there a simple way to check the VSS to differentiate between a bad speedo or bad VSS? Neither one is cheap and I don't want to be wrong. Thanks!

 

very rarely is it the speedo it self, but just in case, i'd look for a used VSS2 either here or at a salvage yard.

[987687]

Check the speed cable that comes out of the transmission. I have seen the lead that comes from the transmission to the speed cable break. It costs something like $33 at a dealer.

 

Did yours bounce around when you were driving between 0 and 20mph, and then even out after that?

[Legacy777]

I believe the 1997 Legacy did not have a cable. So you should just have to replace the VSS and that's it.

[Gloyale]

Here is an update. I replaced the neutral switch and it has improved my situation. Engine will not die or idle rough. I noticed that the speedo was bouncing between 10 and 20 mph and the car ran like a top. Then the speedo stopped altogether again and shortly i got a CEL and P1507. Is there a simple way to check the VSS to differentiate between a bad speedo or bad VSS? Neither one is cheap and I don't want to be wrong. Thanks!

 

If you are getting a code, it's the VSS. If it was merely the display, then the computer would still get the signal and youd get no code.

[wtdash]

Sounds similar to my kid's car - '96 Legacy Brighton - electronic speedo.

 

- Speedo would intermittently bounce/not work under 30mph, but OK above that.....NO idle/drivability issues.

- VSS error code (can't recall # of code but was the front one)

- Replaced w/USED VSS and cleared codes, but still had speedo issue (but no code).

- Replaced gauge cluster* last nite - we'll have to wait and see.

 

 

 

* cluster is out of a '96 Outback - exact replacement and gained the Tachometer..just hope it fixes the issue.

[johnceggleston]

* cluster is out of a '96 Outback - exact replacement and gained the Tachometer..just hope it fixes the issue.

 

 

dash, there is a good chance that the speedo will not be accurate after the swap. be careful until you know for sure.

 

the speedo drive gears in the outback front diff are different than the the legacy so there will be an error. it may be very slight , but kids tend to push the limit and no body needs a speeding ticket.

[tjay460]

Soobie is fixed. Got a used speed sensor at the wrecking yard for $35.00. Also i found that if you look up your part on rock auto and then click the part # it will tell you what cars it fits. The yard I was at didn't know that I could use the sensor out of a 1998 forrester. Thanks for all of the input! By the way my neutral switch would only bench test about every third time so I do think I needed both.

[johnceggleston]

Also i found that if you look up your part on rock auto and then click the part # it will tell you what cars it fits.

 

is there a web address for rock auto.??

[tjay460]

Here is the address for rock auto: http://www.rockauto.com/

[wtdash]

dash, there is a good chance that the speedo will not be accurate after the swap. be careful until you know for sure.

 

the speedo drive gears in the outback front diff are different than the the legacy so there will be an error. it may be very slight , but kids tend to push the limit and no body needs a speeding ticket.

 

 

Thanks for this info- very good point!

 

...It's the AT w/the 2.5 so it's a 4.44, I believe.

Edited August 8, 2009 by wtdash
double-check tranny

[emerkel]

Hey, I know this thread was from a while ago, hope someone replies. I have a very similar situation with my '96 Legacy Outback (Manual Trans.). Recently the Check Engine light came on, the speedo, odometer and trip all stopped working immediately and the same peculiar deal with the stalling out started happening. Occasionally (a couple times per trip) when either stopped or coming to a stop after i've put it in neutral, the engine will stall out. It always starts right back up and runs fine for a while.

 

I got it coded as a P0500 so there's something up with the VSS 2. I'm wondering if there was any confirmation of both problems coming from the VSS or if the idling problem was solved by replacing the neutral switch and the speedo problem solved separately by replacing the VSS2.

 

Thanks

[Legacy777]

In your case, I'd definitely suggest replacing/checking the VSS. Fix that, and your idle/stalling issues should go away.

[emerkel]

Thanks for the reply. I've been under the hood and under the car a bit yesterday and this morning and can't seem to find the VSS2. I've also seen diagrams online ( http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl833h.htm ) that show where it is but they've proved unhelpful since they're a little too zoomed in and I'm a bit of a novice.

 

Any hints or better diagrams as to where I can find the VSS2?

 

Thanks again.

[emerkel]

I actually just found it. Do you have any tips for how to remove it?

 

My service manual has these instructions:

1) Remove collector cover

2) Disconnect VSS 2 connector

3) Turn and remove VSS 2

4) Remove key and packing

 

I was under the impression these were all one part.

[crockettbrat]

Before you remove it try unplugging it and putting in some dialetric grease in the plug. Its tied in at one of the big plugs on the bell housing. I had a problem with mine on a obs and someone suggested that sometimes the connectors loose contact. Easier than replacing the thing and if it doesn't solve your problem you haven't wasted much time.

 

Daniel

[tjay460]

VSS2 was tough to remove on my car as it was held in with blue locktite and there was barely enough room to swing the wrench enough to get one flat and another bite with the wrench. I finally got it by sticking with it and intermittantly venting frustration. Replacing VSS2 cured the idle issues and speedo issues.

[gameprof]

Possible Fix Description – TLDR: In my car, something similar was caused by a bad voltage regulator on a remanufactured alternator.

 

I had a similar issue with my '02 WRX (199,014 mi). However, the problem was actually *caused* by a new alternator. Here's a quick rundown of what happened:

 

1. At about 198,000 miles, I noticed that the red [brake] and [battery] lights started flickering on and off sporadically while driving (I drive about 60 mi to work a few times a week). This happened to me several years ago, and it was due to a grounding issue (it was fixed by simply replacing a ground cable that had a loose connection). I took it in to Subaru for another issue with the air conditioner but asked them to look at the grounding as well.

 

2. Subaru told me that the blinking [brake] and [battery] lights were due to a bad alternator but wanted to charge me $600 parts + labor to replace it, so I decided to replace it on my own.

 

3. I purchased a replacement alternator from AutoZone. Got it installed on my own, and things seemed great. I noticed that the output voltage when the car was running was 17v (above the 14-14.5v that it should be), but things seemed fine (this should have been a warning to me!).

 

4. On the way home from work one day (about 350 mi later), the yellow [ABS] started coming on sporadically. Then, after about 20 more miles, the Speedometer and Tachometer started sporadically dropping to 0 and then popping back up to the proper readings. Though the car seemed to be running fine, I decided something was badly wrong with my car and decided to drive to Subaru instead of home.

 

5. About 1/2 mi from Subaru, the car started sputtering and stalled at a stop light. Pushed it, got a jump start, and finally made it to Subaru (at about 8pm).

 

6. Subaru looked at it the next day and couldn't find anything wrong. They suggested that it might have been caused by corrosion on the battery terminals, cleaned them up, charged me $115, and gave me my car back.

 

7. I drove for about 10 minutes and immediately started experiencing the same issues. Stalled by the side of the road and had the car towed back to Subaru.

 

8. They look again, can't find anything wrong. They drive the car, test again, and nothing is wrong. They drive it again and test for a third time, and suddenly my alternator is putting out 0 voltage. Both Subaru and AutoZone agreed with me that it was probably a bad voltage regulator.

 

9. I had the car towed to my place and called O'Reilly to order a different replacement alternator (AutoZone will give you a refund if the alternator bench tests bad). Got the new alternator installed today, and as far as I can tell, it seems to be running really well now. I ran it in the driveway for about 40 minutes with no issues, so I'm hoping things will be fixed when I head to work this week.

 

Moral of the story: Just because it's a new (refurbished/remanufactured) part doesn't mean that it's not the problem.