kayakpanic Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 soob newb here... i blew the EJ18 motor in a '94 Loyale last winter when it was -35F for 2 weeks straight...flooded it and then never addressed it until April. Bad idea, the cold and gas ate the internals and it threw a rod. I have the option to buy a '87 GL 4WD wagon, with 60,000 original miles on it, but it is carburated and has a 3 speed auto. oh, for $600... I eventually would like to get the EJ82 5 speed trans with hi and lo transfer case, so am wondering if it would be able to retro swap the EJ82 into the '94 Loyale, and use it as a platform (assuming there is a swap plate to use the EA82 engine and EJ18 trans). one of the biggest issues I see is that the EJ18 was fuel injected, and the EJ82 is carbed. I could go either way with it; leave it carbed, or possibly swap the EFI stuff over (if this is even possible), or find the EFI stuff from an EA82. what say you? another question, if i try to switch the EA82 carbed to EFI, what happens to the distributer and associated slot??? is it even possible to do this??? thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Edit: Disregard the tranny part, I didnt read that the 87 has an auto, not a D/R 5 speed, but if you find a D/R it will be a direct bolt-in, no adaptors, in your Loyal: Ok, first off, the motor in your 94 Loyal is not an EJ18, its an EA82. The motor in the 87 is the same motor, an EA82. The blocks are the same, you can swap in the motor from the 87 into the 94, it bolts right in exactly the same, no adaptors of any kind needed, all you have to do is unbolt the intake manifold from the 94 engine and swap it onto the 87 engine. When you pull the motor you could also swap in the D/R trans from the 87 and put it into the 94. OR If the 87 is in better shape than the 94 altogether, just swap the intake manifold and ECU and all the wiring and sensors and distributor into the 87, its really straight forward and there are a lot of writeups on the subject if you search. OR swap a Weber onto the 87 motor and call it good (my method of choice) My main point is you got your motors and engine codes all mixed up, and the 2 motors you want to swap are the same. -Bill Edited August 15, 2009 by The Beast I Drive forgot the disty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 hey thanks bill! the '94 is a bit more beat up, but it has all of the 5 speed setup in it already so that was the direction i wanted to go with it. eventually it will get the 2 speed transfer trans. the '87 doesn't have a scratch on the outside but the inside got eaten by a pack of dogs. so the choice was to either swap the interior from the '94 into the '87, but since the '94 has the 5 speed, that is what i ultimately want to do. the 3 speed auto is a real dog at this point and the carb needs a rebuild. previous owner said soomething like 19 MPG. i was getting 34 MPG in my '94 on a fresh oil change at 240,000 miles...i also don't really like autos, but don't have anything personal against carbs. how hard would it be to swap the carb out and just keep the original EFI from the '94? I will do a search here and try and check. I am used to http://www.ih8mud.com (vintage toyota mechanic forum) so i have yet to figure out all of the ins and outs of this forum... also...what happens to the distributer, if I choose to put the '87 engine into the '94? If i recall correctly, the '94 does not have a distributer because the plug wires all attach at the top of the EFI system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 if the '94 really is a loyale, it'll have a distributer, almost identical to the '87. same place, slightly different sensor between the carb'ed setup and FI. if you're '94 doesn't have a distributor, it's not an Ea82, and therefore isn't an Ea82. if it's an impreza, it could actually be an EJ18, and therefore wouldn't have a disty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 if the '94 really is a loyale, it'll have a distributer, almost identical to the '87. same place, slightly different sensor between the carb'ed setup and FI. if you're '94 doesn't have a distributor, it's not an Ea82, and therefore isn't an Ea82. if it's an impreza, it could actually be an EJ18, and therefore wouldn't have a disty. So the EJ18 has those plug wires with their own (Forgot what their called) Toyota 22RE had that setup and so does the new FJ... No disty (Strange Lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 its definately a old school body '94 Loyale... maybe I just never saw that there was a distributer there under all of the EFI stuff... since the '94 is not outside my house yet (still sitting at a mechanic) I cant check. it is not an Impreza, sure of that. so by what TheBeastIDrive said, basically, I can take the carb off the '87 and the EFI stuff from the '94 will fit directly onto the intake? (hopefully) also, would it be any easier to do the timing belt and cam seal and all of that with the engine pulled, or in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 The distributor on the EA82 motors in on the driver side head back by the brake master cylinder. You should definitely be able to swap the manifolds and disty with no problems, many folks have done it... Just dont break any bolts, it makes everything really difficult if you do... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 also, would it be any easier to do the timing belt and cam seal and all of that with the engine pulled, or in place? Do it with the engine out, or in the car before you put the radiator back in. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 would it be any easier to do the timing belt and cam seal and all of that with the engine pulled, or in place? There are two T-belts on the EA82, I wouldn't pull the engine just to do some cam seals/O-rings and belts (Overkill) Just remove the grill, rad, and fan and then the 3 timing covers and you'll have enough room to do what you need. if the belts havn't broke and havn't skipped a tooth, then while everything is attached (Belts) And turn the engine so on the two Cam sprockets one Dot is "Up" and the other is "Down" then when removing the belts do not turn the Crank, or Cams this way the Timing is still set correct and their is no need to retime it.. Thats all only if the belts have not broke or skipped a tooth.. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 There are two T-belts on the EA82, I wouldn't pull the engine just to do some cam seals/O-rings and belts (Overkill) Just remove the grill, rad, and fan and then the 3 timing covers and you'll have enough room to do what you need. if the belts havn't broke and havn't skipped a tooth, then while everything is attached (Belts) And turn the engine so on the two Cam sprockets one Dot is "Up" and the other is "Down" then when removing the belts do not turn the Crank, or Cams this way the Timing is still set correct and their is no need to retime it.. Thats all only if the belts have not broke or skipped a tooth.. -Tom He has to swap the motors, the one in his car is bad... So it would be easier to do the T-belts and seals at the same time... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 He has to swap the motors, the one in his car is bad... So it would be easier to do the T-belts and seals at the same time... -Bill Oh hes swapping motors, ok yeah.. way easier to do seals and belts with it out (of course) I thought you were thinking on pulling the engine just for that small job, pardon my ignorance Bill :-p -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Bill- thank you very much for the tips on the timing belt replacement...i have never done one yet and tips like these help with the encouragement and belief in my marginal old school Toyota mechanic skills to get me through it. I am sure your years of experience will help me when I do go to tackle that... the belts are still attached and in running condition, so when you say: "then while everything is attached (Belts) And turn the engine so on the two Cam sprockets one Dot is "Up" and the other is "Down" then when removing the belts do not turn the Crank, or Cams this way the Timing is still set correct and their is no need to retime it.. " can you just grab the belt and move it to the right spot? also I read about some sort of special tool to hold the camshaft from moving wile doing the repair? I am going to get a '87 GL with 60,000 original miles for $600, and swap the motor into my '94 Loyale with a blown motor at 245,000 miles. I am just going to do the belts and cam seals and tensioners and o-rings all at once to hopefully have a sweet ride to last me a good 5+ years without any major issues. oh I am also sick of owning vehicles that puke oils all over, so hopefully this will get me on the right path. 4000 miles ago I got a POS '95 Legacy that is leaking huge ammounts of oil into the exhaust downtubes. i decided to cut my losses with it, and go back old school and hope to get near what I paid for it...it only has 140K on it but the previous owner must have really raged it. The Loyale is much more comfortable inside and the features are easier to use, and i surely don't need those 2 airbags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Well if you don't want an oil leaker you might have picked the wrong car I would do the valve cover gaskets and any other seals you can do with the engine out, like oil pump seals, oil oan gasket (coat the cork with a micro-thin layer of RTV and let it dry, GD's proven method for leak-free oilpans ) and anything else that leaks. You can turn the crank with the 22mm bolt in the pulley and a breaker bar. To take off the cam sprockets, leave the belts on, then use the bar on the pulley bolt to hold everything from moving, the loosen the 3 bolts on the cam sprockets, but dont take them out yet. Then take off the belts, then the sprockets. To put them on just do the same thing backwards -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) yeah, but with 60,000 miles on it and grandma owned, the only seal that seems to leak on this diamond in the rough is the cam seal. the guy I am getting it from (grandmas grandson) already did both valve cover gaskets, and all new plugs, wires, cap, rotor. my '94 with 245,000 miles on it leaked some into the exhaust, and some onto the ground, prob timing cover and cam and oil pan, but I only had to add about 1 3/4 quarts per 3000 miles. that seems pretty good to me at that mileage. this POS '95 Legacy is easily going through 3, 4 or more quarts per 2000-3000 miles (only had it for 4000 miles) and it mostly leaking into the exhaust (which smells great esp. the synthetic:slobber:), but some more is leaking out of the cam, timing cover, and oil pan. after considering putting $1000 into a car of marginal known history, I decided to cut my losses (still gotta get rid of it though) and put $1000 into something that will last quite a while longer than the '95... everytime driving any vehicle after blowing the engine, I would see a Loyale or GL or DL it remined me of how I really like the interior set up of my Loyale. No useless ************ in the displays, everything relatively out of the way but accessible... also, I am a vintage Toyota 4x4 guy, so these Subarus hardly leak at all... Edited August 15, 2009 by kayakpanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 So the EJ18 has those plug wires with their own (Forgot what their called) Toyota 22RE had that setup and so does the new FJ... No disty (Strange Lol) EJs have computer-controlled ignition. so 2 coil packs on the intake mani. no disty. 22REs definitely have a disty. yea, you might get lucky with an EA82 with that low mileage, but I highly doubt you'll get 5 years without problems. they're not exactly a bullet-proof engine yea, just swap the whole intake manifold, wiring, disty and sensors from the loyale motor onto the '87 (the manifold is slightly different between the carb and FI setups, but will bolt onto the heads just fine). also, if this is your first timing belt job, I would recommend doing it right. put the marks on both cam sprockets pointing straight up. install the driver's side belt, then turn the crank over by hand one rotation (driver's cam should be pointing down), then install passenger side. once you know what to look for, it can all be done at once, but to make sure it's done right the first time, do the whole process. also, be ABSOLUTELY sure to replace all pulleys. this is the weak link. I've been left on the side of the freeway 6 or 8 times due to EA82 idler failure. there's a company by the name of PCI (preferred components, inc.) that makes high-quality timing belt kits, including all pulleys. there are a few sources on ebay that sell these for a great price. just as good as OEM, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 after considering putting $1000 into a car of marginal known history, I decided to cut my losses (still gotta get rid of it though) and put $1000 into something that will last quite a while longer than the '95... sorry, but you got it backwards. You're loyale will last a long time, but WILL need more work. Wheel bearings, radiator, and the rest of the car are old and will need service. Then about the time you take care of that stuff, the engine will need new seals. And by that point getting seals, brake parts, etc....may become difficult. By contrast, the 95 with it's non interference 2.2 will make more power, be more reliable, and parts wil be easily aavilable for years to come still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 EJs have computer-controlled ignition. so 2 coil packs on the intake mani. no disty. 22REs definitely have a disty. Oops, yes the 22RE does (I made an error) Anyhoo the new FJs motor doesn't have a disty, it has a coil type thing on each plug wire that leads onto the manifold.. My dad was supprized with that.. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakpanic Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 the EJ22 also does not have a distributer... numchux-thanks for the tips. i was going to ask where to get a good set of timing components, i was just going to maybe bite the bullet and get Subaru components. which brand of components were the ones that left you stranded? it seem those would be the brand to stay away from... i drive like a grandpa, and was getting 34MPG on an original engine with 245K on it, and a weak clutch and old timing belt. the best I could get out of the EJ22 with a new clutch was 28-29MPG. the whole reason of going back old school is because of personal preferance, and the fact that the EA82 can go into 2WD. and i eventually will go to the DR 5-speed when the single range in the '94 Loyale gives up... I have already done both of the rear brake drums on the '94 Loyale, which i originally thought to be the bearings. i figure that bearings will be the next things to replace probably...might just do them all as perventive before they go. brake replacements are super cheap. i understand the timing belts should be done every 50K, that being said many people are able to get over 100K on a timing belt by the way they drive. gloyale- i don't think that sourcing parts for a loyale will ever be a problem at all. in fact many (most) of the parts are the same ones as the mid-80's GL and DL, so the parts are mostly the same for all of those vehicles. I see no problems with that kind of supply... the '95 Legacy I have is definately getting sold. I like the Loyale styling WAY better; it also does not aggrvate my back injuries nearly as bad at the Legacy. Although the EJ22 does put out quite a bit more horsepower... I am hoping to pay a retired Subaru Master Mechanic to do the swap ( and have him teach me and help him out). Likely he will also be doing the timing tune up as well as clutch job, with my assistance. This is the cheapest way for me to get a car with everthing replaced all at once. also going to do both CV's and entire exhaust system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 couldn't tell you what brand. but they were all overdue for replacement (new belts, re-used pulleys), or the cheapest thing I could get my hands on. FYI, with a PT4WD drivetrain, an EJ22 is capable of similar mileage. I did an '86 wagon last year with a '96 2.2. it regularly got 30mpg, and not being gentle on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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