Cranks/Turns Over But Won't Fire

[Cowgirl]

Sounds like your onto something, get those subie's running before small woodland creatures discover them

 

Yeah, you don't want to end up like that Jeep commercial. :-p

 

Ha-ha And what jeep commerical? You must share linky

 

Well, here's the latest update:

 

DH was getting real tired of sharing my Mom's van with me. So he busted a few knuckles, worked late zzz into the dark of night with only a single shop light to light the wheel well, and got his 1994 Subie's front end R&Red :banana: (brakes, CV half shaft, ball joint just in case anyone was wondering :-p) So his car is back on the road

 

So, the latest attempt to get this timing thing on the 1993 Subie was sort of a sucess and a bust. It took him three tries/attempts of installing the belt but he finally got it to run--and it sounded pretty good!! BUT!!! It only runs if you hold the key in the crank position. That's bad. DH was cursing, saying we should have never bought this car, blah, blah, blah..... basically the rantings of a man who has precious little spare time to work on ANYTHING at home and now he's spent THREE FULL Sunday evenings working on a car that STILL does NOT run....

 

Up side: We may have an ANSWER!!!! My Mom talked to a mechanic friend of ours about our problem, and he said he has run into this issue before. What was the solution? you ask. Well, he says that the crank and pulley are 180 degrees OFF!!! Turn them 180 from what you have been doing, and the car will (eh, should, we hope..) RUN!!! So .... if DH has time this weekend, we are going to give it a go!!

[OB99W]

So, the latest attempt to get this timing thing on the 1993 Subie was sort of a sucess and a bust. It took him three tries/attempts of installing the belt but he finally got it to run--and it sounded pretty good!! BUT!!! It only runs if you hold the key in the crank position. That's bad.[...]

If it seems to run ''normally'' when you hold the key in the start position (other than the poor starter being beaten to death), the problem could just be a bad contact in the ignition switch.

 

 

[...] he says that the crank and pulley are 180 degrees OFF!!! Turn them 180 from what you have been doing, and the car will (eh, should, we hope..) RUN!!! So .... if DH has time this weekend, we are going to give it a go!!

I'm speechless.

Edited September 12, 2009 by OB99W
Corrected typo

[Fairtax4me]

I wouldn't think the pulley are too far out of alignment now if it will run when the starter is engaged. The fact that it runs at all says that you've got it close, but maybe just not close enough. Turning the crank 180° is the difference between top dead center, and bottom dead center. I kinda doubt that will help the situation. If you're getting fire now, you won't get any after that.

 

 

The jeep commercial. It's a few years old now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45Vok2fM7Lg

[Olnick]

Well, he says that the crank and pulley are 180 degrees OFF!!! Turn them 180 from what you have been doing, and the car will (eh, should, we hope..) RUN!!!

 

 

Please take careful notes on what you do and report back to us! I can't imagine what he means or how to execute it. The cam and crank sprockets have keyways so they only go on one way. And the hash marks have to be lined up properly in relation to each other or the timing will be totally off.

 

So good luck . . . and let us know what happens!

[Cowgirl]

I'mmmmm Baaaacckkkk!!!! :grin:

 

Well, after the snow started to fly, DH was NOT motivated to wrench on the "new" Subie in the driveway. So it has been sitting till reciently. When a mechanic friend of ours took mercy on us and towed it to his house to get it running!! :banana:

 

Last week he said he got it running and it was "ready to go", but then I guess he realized there was an additional problem. Apparently, and I'm going to quote my mom's email here because she is the one who talked to him:

 

"Someone had taken apart the valve cover to attempt to replace the "blown" valve cover gasket. They didn't finish it, but partly put it back together. They are replacing the valve cover gasket and are hoping that the heads are alright. His guess is that they did overheat the engine, and blew the gasket. That it was more than just a "leaky water pump" issue."

 

And the "leaky water pump" is what we were told was the "original issue". Ugggghhhhhhh..... insight guys? Hints? Am I looking at it being a "parts car":dead: or do you think it will be okay?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Cowgirl

[Mike104]

Do you mean "head gasket"?

[Cowgirl]

Do you mean "head gasket"?

 

Yea, I believe that is what my mom meant. Like I said, I was quoting her email she sent me.

[johnceggleston]

Yea, I believe that is what my mom meant. Like I said, I was quoting her email she sent me.

 

you won't know till you drive it, but the 2.2L engine is more resilient than the 2.5L engine. keep your fingers crossed.

Edited March 10, 2010 by johnceggleston

[Fairtax4me]

New head gaskets and it should be fine. Sucks you had to wait this long to find out it needed more work. You'll get to enjoy it eventually.

[Sioux-baru]

This may or may not help, but when i run into engines that dont fire, I check electrical first, I disconnect the rotor wire and ground it, an observe it for spark when cranking the engine.

IF that is good, i reconnect the wires and dump fuel down the carb and try again, it fires, and stop means no fuel getting to carb. or in your case, may be incorrect cam settings. in that case, i manually turn the engine for #1 to TDC, and check the distributer to match. thats my two cents.

[MilesFox]

you could have an issue with the crank angle sensor, or the coolant temp sensor.

 

if the coolant temp sensor is bed, either the car will run great till it warms up, or the car it thinking its warm when its cold and therefore not richening the fuel to cold start.

 

the idle air control valve may be stuck open or closed, and its function will be determined by the engine temp sensor.

[Cowgirl]

you won't know till you drive it, but the 2.2L engine is more resilient than the 2.5L engine. keep your fingers crossed.

 

New head gaskets and it should be fine. Sucks you had to wait this long to find out it needed more work. You'll get to enjoy it eventually.

 

Thanks guys!! I hope the Subie is "tough as nails" and is okay. I am eagerly awaiting driving it!! I like DH's Subie, so I really hoping mine rides as nice as his!!

 

This may or may not help, but when i run into engines that dont fire, I check electrical first, I disconnect the rotor wire and ground it, an observe it for spark when cranking the engine.

IF that is good, i reconnect the wires and dump fuel down the carb and try again, it fires, and stop means no fuel getting to carb. or in your case, may be incorrect cam settings. in that case, i manually turn the engine for #1 to TDC, and check the distributer to match. thats my two cents.

 

you could have an issue with the crank angle sensor, or the coolant temp sensor.

 

if the coolant temp sensor is bed, either the car will run great till it warms up, or the car it thinking its warm when its cold and therefore not richening the fuel to cold start.

 

the idle air control valve may be stuck open or closed, and its function will be determined by the engine temp sensor.

 

Thanks for the additional information guys!! Although.... you might want to read the whole thread for the updates...

[Sonicfrog]

Actually MY "daily driver" is... or should I say was a Ford Aerostar van. Which right now, will not run properly

 

It's a Ford eh... won't run properly.... How could you tell the difference???

[Cowgirl]

It's a Ford eh... won't run properly.... How could you tell the difference???

 

:brow: Har. Har. Har. That's a knee slapper!

 

Still waiting for word on how my Subie is doing.... Will update everyone when I know something...:popcorn:

[OB99W]

This may or may not help, but when i run into engines that dont fire, I check electrical first, I disconnect the rotor wire and ground it, an observe it for spark when cranking the engine.

IF that is good, i reconnect the wires and dump fuel down the carb and try again, it fires, and stop means no fuel getting to carb. or in your case, may be incorrect cam settings. in that case, i manually turn the engine for #1 to TDC, and check the distributer to match. thats my two cents.

That approach could be useful, but it's not exactly applicable to distributorless ignition and fuel injection.

[Cowgirl]

Well, I have the final answer on what is the trouble with our "new" subie. Here's the exerpts from the email my Mom sent me:

 

"Well, it looks like it will make a nice "parts car". The car must have been overheated, blow the head gasket and has a hairline crack in the head. They tried to "tig" weld the crack and still couldn't get it to run for only a few seconds.. **** tried to find a used engine for it at the junk yard... none available that he could find. "

 

So, that pretty much sums it up. Now we are discussing what to do next. :-\

[johnceggleston]

"new" Subie (1993 Subaru Legacy 2.2 2WD 180K) all put back together again. New temp. gage, new timing belt, new upper & lower radiator hoses, new A/C & alternator belts, new battery, new spark plugs, and oil changed.

 

to re-cap, you got this car free or almost free and the engine came in pieces, correct? and after you got it back together it would not run.?

 

apparently you took it apart again and found a crack in the head and tried to repair it, correct?

 

i'm not going to re-read all of the posts, did it have good compression?

 

 

did you look here for an engine? 90 - 94 will work: www.car-part.com

 

 

maybe 95 - 96 or maybe not they are obd2.

 

where in michigan?

 

1992

Engine

Subaru Legacy(2.2L, VIN '6' 6th digit), w/o turbo--

100K

$350

Abcat Auto Salvage USA-MI(Ypsilanti)

1-800-869-6933

Edited May 2, 2010 by johnceggleston

[Cowgirl]

John-- you are AWESOME!!!! :banana:

 

Basically, yes we got Subie for cheap, was not running. Enlisted help of mechanic friend who was able to put timing belt back on to only discover it ran badly. He took off head and found crack. Tried to weld crack. No go. Not sure if mechanic friend did compression test. I know we didn't.

 

I will let him know of this other car with engine!! WOO HOO!!!! :banana:

[johnceggleston]

John-- you are AWESOME!!!! :banana:

I will let him know of this other car with engine!! WOO HOO!!!! :banana:

 

you are welcome, but it isn't a car it is just an engine, from a salvage yard. another option would be to buy a good head, but if the car has been over heated it may be better to swap the whole thing.

 

there are others if you search the link i gave you. i used a lansing zip code, you can use your own and sort the search by distance. you may get luckier than i did.

[Cowgirl]

you are welcome, but it isn't a car it is just an engine, from a salvage yard. another option would be to buy a good head, but if the car has been over heated it may be better to swap the whole thing.

 

there are others if you search the link i gave you. i used a lansing zip code, you can use your own and sort the search by distance. you may get luckier than i did.

 

my bad! I realized after I started reading the websites that it is "engine only". I have been talking with hubby and now he's excited about my subie again!!! After the "final diagnosis" he was upset:mad:. Now, he's saying "hummm... I can do an engine R&R..."

 

Starting new thread now.... :)

[Fairtax4me]

I see these cars in the junkyard almost every time I go. There is bound to be a pickapart somewhere near you (within an hour away) that has one of these with a good cylinder head you can use.

[Cowgirl]

I know this is reviving an OLD thread, but.... we are *still* working on getting this car running... Yes, we are slow... but steady!

 

We have another mechanic friend who buys, fixes up and resells cars as a hobby/side job, and he thinks he'd like to try to fix the head (or replace it). So we are letting him have a go at it, and we shall see where we are after his "college try". If he cannot fix it, then he can do the engine R&R for us and we will FINALLY have it running!!!

 

So .... that's the latest and not so exciting update.....

[Fairtax4me]

Say wha...?! I wouldn't have the patience to wait that long. Good used Ej22s in the junkyard all day long, quit trying to fix a cracked overheated engine and just drop a used one in it. Fixed and ready to roll.