GeneralDisorder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Lets get some facts straight here. 1. The sound an engine makes - as it pertains to the "smoothness" or "roughness" is determined by the number of cylinders, and how evenly the exhaust pulses are emitted from the tail-pipe. 2. The one and only *reason* that Subaru engines and other boxer's have a "rumble" to them is that they have a small number of cylinders (more widely spaced exhaust pulses) and as Carfreak pointed out - almost all of them have unequal length headers due to the cost and complexity of producing EL headers for such an engine design. The gains are small from EL header design's (on the order of 25 HP for a 300 HP turbocharged engine for example - gains are much smaller even for NA engines). 3. Conversely, the reason you *don't* hear this on other engines is that they either have more cylinders, or they have nearly equal length headers - which is trivial to produce for inline engines. Accross the board in other vehicles out there you either have more cylinders, or you have an inline engine design that has EL factory headers simply because it was easy and inexpensive. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 GD, yes there you go. that opend my eyes, Maybe I wasn't grasping it earlier (Been working long hours at work, been a bit out of it latly) Thank you for that write up, its plain and straight forward. Thanks again guys, Just been thinking on how to increse the sound. opend this thread -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I put on a freeflow muffler, you can see right through it, Magnaflow, I think. Its really not that loud either. At least 2 more seat of your pants HP! What is the acid that is formed from exhaust gasses, like when it mixes with water or something? Doesn't that eat paint and start rust? Edited August 22, 2009 by Yo'J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 I put on a freeflow muffler' date=' you can see right through it, Magnaflow, I think. Its really not that loud either.At least 2 more seat of your pants HP! [/quote'] Now I remember, I wanted to ask if anyone has ever use a Flow Master muffler or something like it, also if I could find a performance more free flowing muffler that will fit under the car and not look dumb (Like a Ricer) can I use the stock pipe from the OE muffler that bolts to the mid-pipe? Since it has the correct bend in it to go over the trailing arm and such and it also has the right flange. Has anyone use a muffler like this? NOT a glasspack, can't run those in WI. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Now I remember, I wanted to ask if anyone has ever use a Flow Master muffler or something like it. I have one of the mufflers off my friend's Mustang's old Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust system. Not a glass pack, but still not a straight through design, which probably hurts the power some. My reasoning for using it? 1) It was free. 2) It has 2.5" inlet and outlets. 3) It is pretty thin in the vertical plane giving me more ground clearence. 4) It was free. Video here: http://rides.webshots.com/video/3001985700044565751uYvAhl?vhost=rides BTW, its a turbocahrged car, so your results may differ, but it is a FlowMaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
()__1337_CRAYOLA__()> Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 you can laugh at me all you want... but my buddy traded me the muffler he bought for his Honda to wire in his radio. and well the wagon needed a new muffler anyway. it turned out alright it doesn't look outrageously ricer or anything (to me at least). It sounds very good for a 2" inlet to a 4" outlet not to loud but just right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I've got the cherry bomb turbo on mine. Sounds nice...not much louder, but still has the rumble and I'm sure a couple more HP's. And no, it doesn't have to go in crooked like mine to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
()__1337_CRAYOLA__()> Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I've had bad luck with the cherry bomb mufflers the seams rust and leak shortly after putting them on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The key to bringing out the low, deep, grumble is to use resonating chambers. This does not require any exhaust restriction. It is merely an expansion chamber (a section of pipe that is larger diameter for a distance, then returns to normal diameter). This allows destrutive interference to eliminate the unwanted high-picthed tone's. When done correctly and properly tuned it results in a very nice sound. The system on my 91 SS started out life as a $400 ebay special (for a WRX) - 3" stainless, straight through, catless, turbo-back. It has no mufflers - only a single mid-pipe resonator, and a straight through cherry-bomb style tip. The tip section is a resonator with a mesh core that further dampens high pitched tone. It sounds very nice, is completely without restrictions, and it definately has the "rumble". My headers are completely stock so the rumble is quite pronounced. In fact if you wanted to increase the rumble of the non-turbo engine, fab up a turbo header to it. It is a LOT more unequal than the standard NA y-pipe's. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Carfreak, thank you for the video! I like how you note it was "Free" twice hehe. Crayola, hmm doesn't look to bad just as long as you don't add those neon squirter heads Lol, but really, Looks cool. Soobie Doo, Awesome! What the part number on that one you have? I should be able to weld that to the stock muffler pipe that bolts to the mid pipe, right? GD, Oh I've seen that on some of those car shows on SpeedTV. They did that to a Mustang once (It did add to the deepness) Thank you all for your input and time! I think I'm gonna see about that muffler Soobie Doo has. I didn't know Cherry Bomb made other types besides Glasspacks. Cool! -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Carfreak Very nice! Thats what I'm looking for, something along those lines.. I have a video of my cars sound on youtube. ID is TheLoyale. btw what is that on ur wagon that says Volvo, Mudflap? Soobie Doo, would you have a video of urs? -Tom Edited August 22, 2009 by TheLoyale Adding text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The key to bringing out the low, deep, grumble is to use resonating chambers. This does not require any exhaust restriction. It is merely an expansion chamber (a section of pipe that is larger diameter for a distance, then returns to normal diameter). This allows destrutive interference to eliminate the unwanted high-picthed tone's. When done correctly and properly tuned it results in a very nice sound. This. I'm pretty sure my XT6 doesn't have a muffler, just a resonator where the muffler should be. I love the sound of it. I'll try to remember and get a video... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I've had bad luck with the cherry bomb mufflers the seams rust and leak shortly after putting them on Hey, it was cheap. Guess I'll paint mine and stop the rust from one side. GD, if I'm understanding correctly, wouldn't the turbo manifold decrease performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDead Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Or ya can just have a custom one built. On my WRX, I have a custom 2.5" Mandrel bent stainless, and I LOVE it!! Kinda loud for some though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 GD, if I'm understanding correctly, wouldn't the turbo manifold decrease performance? Maybe - not much though. The stock EA82 NA y-pipe is already unequal and the performance losses of making it *more* unequal are pretty slim. Probably not enough to notice. Might pick it up on a dyno but we are talking about an engine that delivers 84 to 90 HP here..... it's not going to make enough difference to talk about and if it gives the desired exhaust note then it's a viable option. Pointless IMO, but to each their own eh? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caramanos2000 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Hey, it was cheap. Guess I'll paint mine and stop the rust from one side. GD, if I'm understanding correctly, wouldn't the turbo manifold decrease performance? They do kind of rust, I painted mine with VHT header paint, actually I did my entire exhaust from the engine back with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Caramanos, VHT is great! Wanted to ask, is there a part number for the Muffler you have, or are all the Cherry Bomb Turbo mufflers the same? Could you also post a picture of where it connects to the mid-pipe or stock muffler pipe, however you rigged it Thanks, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 OK, went to CherryBombs site and found the Turbo muffler. Now theres 4 diffrent styles (All are ovel but the offsets change) so This one seems the closest to the stock Soob muffler (Offset wise) would this work well? I should be able to cut off the old muffler and reuse the piping from the old muffler correct? Cause I'm thinking of welding this muffler to the stock piping since the correct bends are already in place. btw, what size is the stock piping? 1-1/2? -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 OK, went to CherryBombs site and found the Turbo muffler. Now theres 4 diffrent styles (All are ovel but the offsets change) so This one seems the closest to the stock Soob muffler (Offset wise) would this work well? I should be able to cut off the old muffler and reuse the piping from the old muffler correct? Cause I'm thinking of welding this muffler to the stock piping since the correct bends are already in place. btw, what size is the stock piping? 1-1/2? -Tom Ya know, I'm not sure now which I got...prob the 7407 Where did you get that pic from!?! http://www.cherrybomb.com/products/pro The inlet was supposed to be centered, so I got it backwards. Hence the weird placement on me soob. I'd buy a different pipe size or brand to get it right. Don't count on the stock pipe being 1-7/8" either. I think it's flared out to some odd size near the muffler. Here's all you need to know: http://www.indysworld.com/80s/general/ea-performance-page/subaru-ea-performance.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hmm ok, Well, I got this picture from a retailer that CherryBomb promotes (forgot the name) on their site for buying online. I'll have to look at it better when I buy it (Make sure I'm getting what I'm getting) Ok, lets say I buy a length of pipe (Whatever size I need) How would I bend it to the same as the stock pipe for the OE muffler? Well maybe I'm not thinking right, i might be able to get anyway with not bending it alot (Forgot what it look likes under there) Eh, maybe I can figure it out once I have it and am doing it. Thanks for the info and the link! forgot about that page -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I did use the stock bent pipe, then just adapted it to the muffler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 I did use the stock bent pipe, then just adapted it to the muffler. Ok, thats what I was planing on, I can always get some adaptor peices to play with at AutoZone (Hate that place btw) Lol Now I'm excited about this! Now I need to get better at welding Hehe, I don't think I need to worrie about burning a hold thru the pipes huh? My first time with doing fab work like this -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Exhaust tubing is very thin wall. Running a decent bead on it is difficult for beginners. A small MIG welder is best - running gas sheilding. You need to clean the area to be welded very well in order to run a decent bead. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Exhaust tubing is very thin wall. Running a decent bead on it is difficult for beginners. A small MIG welder is best - running gas sheilding. You need to clean the area to be welded very well in order to run a decent bead. GD Yep I know that all to well (Well my dads good at welding) I'll make sure it clean so I can get good contact, (Using Lincoln WeldPak 100 wirefeed arc) Should work ok, We'll see lol -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niku-Sama Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 i welded up a crack on a section where the center muffler used to be on my 280zx with a harbor freight wire welder, it seems to be holding fine and i think its gonna be hotter than at the end of the line of a 1.8L. you'll be fine, but if your pop welds well (mine doesent so much) then buy em some beers and let em have a crack at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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