pvenuti Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I just installed a freshly rebuilt EJ22(from a 92 Legacy) in a kit car that weighs 2100lbs and while the engine starts, idles and drives the car it seems to be lacking some power. There is no bogging down between shifts, revs smoothly. The only slight anomaly I notice is a slight pop(not sure if it's on the intake or exhaust) when shifting. Checking my engine codes I see that I have 12,33,51,52 all of which are only shown when I set the car up in Mem check mode and drive it. In D check mode I get a steady blinking of the check engine light which I'm told means no codes. Can someone please confirm that this is correct. That said I'm looking for some advice on what I might start looking at to troubleshoot this. Is there a recommendation for software to get detailed data from the ECU? I have seen Select Monitor and from what I have read it seems like it would work on my OBDI ECU if I can source a cable. Or is there another recommendation? Anyone have an opinion on how big a role that code 33 vehicle speed sensor plays in the ECU's ability to self tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) The ECU knowing whether the car is in neutral or not (code 51) and it getting good VSS data (code 33) are both important to proper engine running. However, it's also possible that the ''anemia'' and pop when shifting might indicate a slight valve timing issue -- you might want to check the timing belt installation. Also consider things that might affect A/F ratio, such as possible intake leaks, etc. EDIT: Here's some info on the 2.2 t-belt installation, just in case. 2.2 Liter, timing belt: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2SingleOverWin01.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2Liter.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf Motor Magazine series; starts with 2.2, then moves on to 2.5: http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/072001_08.pdf http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082001_08.pdf http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/092001_08.pdf http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/102001_08.pdf http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/112001_08.pdf (last one includes new-style tensioner info) Edited August 22, 2009 by OB99W Added timimg belt info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If the timing belt is off a tooth or two it will do this without setting a code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Thank you both for the replies. I will take a look at what’s involved with confirming the correct timing. Sounds like it will take a little time but if the engine can run without throwing a code I guess I better check that for sure. Anyone have opinions of diag software or were to get a cable for the laptop. Again thank you for the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) The obdii format started in subarus in '95, my guess is that earlier models were not readable via serial cable, so the flashing led is the only way to get codes. Scratch that, just reread your post re: OBD1, there are a few websites that support it. I use 'OBD Gauge' software (free) maybe they have a version for OBD1. With OBDII, you need a converter box to convert to RS232 for the laptop. Can't speak for OBD1 though. Edited August 22, 2009 by 89Ru just plain incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 low power and a popping intake huh? Sound like timing belt is off. Align with the notches, NOT the arrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Wow! Thank you so much for posting the links to the Motor Magazine series. I had already read the end wrench articles and between the diagrams and descriptions I had scared myself off from even looking at the belt on my own. But after reading the articles from Motor Magazine I will at a minimum be pulling the cam gear covers and checking to see what I can find. Also love that Dan’s description in his first article seem to match my engines symptoms. Now that I have read the articles I have a new question. Assuming I do find that the timing is off, I don’t own any of the special wrenches used to hold the various gears etc. Should I try holding the crank by jamming the flywheel? Second question (again assuming the timing is off) if I do decide to take it to someone to make the adjustment, what should I expect to pay for the work, I live in Beverly MA. Thank you all for the help and the tip on using the notches not the arrows. I will post again once I have pulled the covers and know what’s going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ok so I have pulled the covers from both cam gears and when I bring one of them up to 12 O’clock and line it up with the notch the other is off by the slightest little bit. I can’t seem to find a mark on the harmonic balancer so I'm unable to verify which side it off at this time. I have removed all the little pieces blocking the center cover but I'm unable to remove the Harmonic balancer at this time. Can someone please confirm for me that the bolt holding the harmonic balancer is a standard thread and loosens counter clockwise before I proceed any further. Also does anyone know if the parts stores rent a tool to hold the balancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yup its a normal bolt. Remember when you retorque it retorque it to 140ft-lbs and put a bit of oil on the threads. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/ Go to the timing belt FSM. Explains how to set timing and alot of good FSM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks for the confirmation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 22mm socket and a 1/2" breaker bar. Put the socket on and with the breaker bar all the way down on the frame on the battery side Left hand side of the car, crank the starter a second or two. The bolt will break loose. I've done this dozen of times without a problem, but others have had very bad things happen, if they do not get it setup right so do this only if it makes sense to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Disconnect the plug wires, you don't want this thing firing up with a breaker bar on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Ok so I have pulled the covers from both cam gears and when I bring one of them up to 12 O’clock and line it up with the notch the other is off by the slightest little bit. One tooth off is enough to affect performance. No special tools are necessary, if you are replacing cam seals then a chain wrench is helpful, search around the board, there's lots of cleverness to discover. If taking it to a shop, expect to pay $350 or so - maybe Tom and Ray can do it for you if you're near Cambridge although beware, not all shops know subarus and you might end up with problems later. Leave a copy of the procedure laying on the passenger seat for the tech to discover it, or better yet do it yourself and make your own mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 One tooth off is enough to affect performance. No special tools are necessary, if you are replacing cam seals then a chain wrench is helpful, search around the board, there's lots of cleverness to discover. If taking it to a shop, expect to pay $350 or so - maybe Tom and Ray can do it for you if you're near Cambridge although beware, not all shops know subarus and you might end up with problems later. Leave a copy of the procedure laying on the passenger seat for the tech to discover it, or better yet do it yourself and make your own mistakes Does a Chain wrench really work for the cams? I only replaced everything BUT the cam seals and now they both need to be replaced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Use the old timing belt to hold the cam sprocket. You can wrap it from the crank gear around the cam gears and have it overlap in the middle. Clamp the midpoint with a visegrips or c-clamp. It works great and no damage to the gears or belt as its an old one not to be used again. I cut a section just long enough to do this and then keep it. You can use the same setup to hold the cam gear when you torque the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Having a little problem trying to picture overlapping it.. Do you mean on the crank sprocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Did it myself last night. I thought the toughest part was going to be removing the harmonic balancer but it wasn’t that bad. I friend turned me on to the fact that there is a hole on the back left-hand side of the engine were it meets the bell housing. Sliding a tapered punch in there holds the fly wheel very well. The hardest part I had was the juggling act I made out of reinstalling the belt. Keeping the timing mark aligned on the right cam while installing the belt and making sure the marks were all in place was a bit of a fiasco for me. In the end I reinstalled the compressed tensioner and associated idler and removed the lower idler to gain the required slack. After all was said and done it started right up so I might have gotten it right. I will know more tonight when I get the other little bits back on and take her for a ride. Edited August 26, 2009 by pvenuti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 trying to picture overlapping it.. If I can picture it, essentially you are belting (old belt) the cam gear and the crank sprocket together and clamping the two overlapping ends of the belt in the middle of the two so the belt doesn't slip. Now you can 'drive' the cam from a wrench on the crank sprocket and wrench the cam bolt loose. So you don't need a chain wrench on the cam with this cleverness. hmmm a lot more words, someone else could say it more elegantly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ok so getting the car out for that ride took a little longer than expected but here is my update. I reset the belt(off on the right cam) and do feel a bit of a difference but still not great on the low end torque. For a smooth start in first I need to bring the rpm’s up to 1500. Power really doesn’t develop until 3k and then it starts to pull strong(relatively speaking). At the beginning of this thread I failed to mention an additional symptom(hard starting cold) that started after about 150-180 miles of driving the new engine. This hard starting when cold appeared right about the time I filled the tank and I told myself that it might be bad gas. Since that time I ran it just about fry and have filled the tank again and the problem persists. Doing a little research here on the site I see that a common problem is the CHT sensor for the ECU. I swapped that out on Saturday hopeful that providing the ECU with proper data would help out all around but it is still hard to start when it’s cold. Once I start the car for the day I can leave it in 70 degree outside air temp for two or three hours come back and it starts good. Tonight I hope to have some time to look for a vacuum leak using a can of carb cleaner in hopes that a leak might be related to my lack of power issue. If anyone has other thoughts around either issue of troubleshooting ideas I would greatly appreciate the input. I’m also looking for a place that I can order the serial or USB(serial) cable used with software like select monitor on the OBD in hopes that I might be able to research my problem with some additional data from the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Pull the vacuum line off of the Fuel pressure regulator and make sure its dry inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 What fuel pump are you running and what pressure? You need about 32 lbs. of pressure, or the engine will not reach optimum performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Pulled the vacuum line for the pressure regulator it's dry inside. Confirmed with the fuel pump suppler that it should push north of 60lbs. I will be buying a pressure gauge tomorrow to test what I actually have. Thanks for all the help so far. Please keep those suggestions coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ok, so I got the Fuel pressure gauge and tested last night it's right on at 32lbs. I assume that even thought the pump is capable of over 60 lbs that the pressure regulator on the fuel rail is releasing the excess hence the results of the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 If you reset the ECU (clear the codes) and run a couple of drive cycles, do codes 51 and 33 return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 The codes have not returned after a reset. One would think that they should be a regualr problem since I dont have a VSS conencted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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