ea82 oil preference?

[BuddhaRoadkill]

About to do an oil change and thought I might try something fancy instead of just the generic 10W30. Search won't take oil as a key word so even though I'm sure this has been asked a 1000^n times before, I have to ask again. Anyone found an oil that ea82's like? Synthetic? mobil 1 is on sale! Also, is there a trick to removing the oil pan? As always, Thanks for any input ya suby masters have to offer.

[TheLoyale]

I just use 10w-40 Castrol GTX (Non-synthetic) works fine in extream cold too.

 

-Tom

[Txakura]

I just use 10w-40 Castrol GTX (Non-synthetic) works fine in extream cold too.

 

-Tom

 

I use the 'High Mileage' Castrol 10-40 (also non synthetic, green bottle), it has some seal conditioners that actually seem to help stop weepy seals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

of which there are about 28 on the grEAsy82

[TheLoyale]

actually seem to help stop weepy seals

 

 

 

 

 

of which there are about 28 on the grEAsy82

 

LOL! I never heard that one before, Nice Job!

 

-Tom

[GeneralDisorder]

Synthetic is great stuff - if you need it. The question then becomes - who needs it and why?

 

Synthetic's are superb at handling high heat loads for a significantly longer period of time than non synthetic oils. Beyond that - right up to the point that the conventional oil begins to break down - there are no significant differences.

 

Also one must consider the possilbility that switching to synthetics will adversely affect the seals and gaskets in your 20+ year old engine. Synthetics have a larger quantity of additives as well as different additives entirely than conventional oils - this is needed to allow them to go 10's of thousands of miles before oil changes (with top-offs and filter changes of course). This radical difference in additives will not likely be friendly to the old seals and gaskets in your engine.

 

Personally, synthetics aren't my choice for older engines - for one the 5,000 mile oil change is a good time to look everything else over and check other fluid levels.

 

I don't use synthetics in my engines - even in the cases where I have rebuilt them completely. The reason? I don't have the time nor the inclination to do oil analysis testing - which is important to both maximize the value of synthetics, and to pinpoint when filters and oil should be changed over the life of the engine. Any industry that uses synthetics, as well as every single branch of the military has recognized this - there is no shortcut around it - if you run synthetics you SHOULD be doing oil analysis as well. I would rather just change my conventional oil every 5k and not bother with the added work of analysis and tracking every single aspect of my various engine's.

 

Once again - this isn't rocket science and we don't build swiss watches here. This is a Subaru - not the military, not NASA.....

 

Further, I would sugest that 90% of the people that run synthtic in their vehicles do so for no good reason at all. "it's more expensive, so it must be better!" The same reason that a LOT of people buy the cars they do.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea....

 

GD

[idosubaru]

is there some reason you're asking about oil? seems like there's some genesis for the question?

 

i agree with GD, synthetic is great stuff, but it's way overkill. you will not realize any benefits to synthetic oil and your engine will last as long as you care to maintain it with conventional oil.

 

the most important thing with EA82's and ER27's is changing the oil, very often depending on the previous owners. the HLA's don't like dirty oil.

[rickssubie]

the eternal debate. We have these over and over again over at the Mercedes forum. Everybody drags out their test results, charts, articles, web sites, baseball bats, chains, brass knuckles and goes at it.

I have yet to see proof positve either way. I had my dad's old '67 Ford pickup that he bought new, with close to half a million miles on it, with the original engine. It never had anything but Penzoil dino-oil put in it. Was good enough for dad, it's good enough for me. But whatever floats yer boat, I say.

[GeneralDisorder]

We have these over and over again over at the Mercedes forum.

 

Yep - see my comment above about about people that buy cars for no good reason at all except to one-up their neighbor.

 

My industry (industrial machinery) uses a lot of synthetics. And for good reason I might add. They really do work - although it's *mostly* just a way to keep from changing the oil so often. Don't do your proper oil analysis and submit the paperwork on it and you'll void your warranty - I kid you not!

 

I work on a lot of German pumps. They are the most silly, obtusely designed things imaginable sometimes. I don't know what it is about the German engineers, but I do get sick of their shenanigans at times. German cars are no different (especially the newer stuff), and thus I would expect the type of people that gravitate towards owning them either have no sense of practicality at all, or simply own them for their "prestige" and just don't give a damn how much it costs. Either way - those folks can all go broke putting synthetics in their cars - I'll just laugh at them and their gullibility.

 

GD

[Quidam]

"Anyone found an oil that ea82's like? Synthetic? mobil 1 is on sale! "

 

 

Well, mine like Mobil 1. Extended drain intervals. I "clean" my Puroilator filter and put them back on. A little solvent and air...

 

You can tell what it looks like with the dipstick.

 

Doug

 

I generally run Mobil 1 about 12 K before changing it out. Just keep clean filters on it.

 

If it's a real leaker, I don't use it until I get it leak free, and yes, I have Subaru's that don't leak a drop.

 

Doug

[rickssubie]

I sat down and did the math awhile ago, and found that even the "longer interval between oil changes" arguement fell apart. Synth oil is so over-priced, that over the course of say 100k miles, even going twice as long between oil changes you loose. Then stop and figure out how long the average person keeps a car. Let's say you keep a car for 100k miles. Either oil, changed regularly, will keep any engine in fine shape that long. So the only one that MAY benefit from synth oil, will be the next owner(s).

So, what's the point?

BTW, I do use Mobil 1 in my Lexus GS300. But only for one reason. That particular engine is known to sludge up on top of the cylinder head for some dumb reason. But everybody over at the Lexus forum says that synth oil will prevent that from happening. So, ok, fine. I'll use Synth in it. It only gets driven maybe 7k miles a year anyway, so that's just one oil change a year.

Oh, and I'm an ex-Mercedes owner. I won't buy a new one. I've only had old diesels, which were built like a tank. And, BTW, the only japanese cars that get a thumbs up "over there", are Subies. They tore me apart when I bought the Lexus!

[GeneralDisorder]

I sat down and did the math awhile ago, and found that even the "longer interval between oil changes" arguement fell apart. Synth oil is so over-priced, that over the course of say 100k miles, even going twice as long between oil changes you loose.

 

Well - in defence of sythetics, you shouldn't be changing it at *only* double the interval.... and actually you illustrate my prior point nicely - you MUST do oil analysis to find out when to change it. Changing the filter ever 10k is also a must. Between what's lost in the filter, and what's lost through being burnt, the regular top-offs along with the filter change insure that you are always adding some new oil to keep the additive package going strong.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

So I work with air compressors - BIG air compressors. Generally in the 50 to 1000 HP range. In this range, you may or may not be aware, that in the last 50 years the technology of choice has been the oil flooded rotary screw compressor. Now as far as the "oil" they use goes - the earliest machines used SAE 10 oil - otherwise known as turbine oil in the industry. In the 70's everyone switched to using ATF - due to the rise in automatic transmissions in the auto industry, it was plentiful, cheap, and standardized. Well - fast forward to the early 90's and the auto manufacturers changed the formula for ATF - and in doing so caused it to outgas a foul smelling mothball like odor. This did not go over well in the compressor industry. In fact it shutdown some facilities due to the smell - evacuations and such.... not pretty.

 

Anyway - the point of this is that ATF was cheap - and thus so was changing the oil. It HAD to be changed every 1000 to 2000 hours or it would start to go solid. The replacement oil's that have been developed are about 5 times as expensive, but the change interval jumped to 8000 hours. It's pretty much a draw really. But no smelly outgassing! Plus the stuff is so much better at it's job, that the manufacturer's have been able to increase their warranty period. In some cases, as long as you use the super-grade oil, it's up to 10 years!

 

It really does work - that's why the military uses it. But again the only way to make it economical and effective is to DO THE ANALYSIS!

 

GD

[Niku-Sama]

this is an engine i find is not worth spending the extra for synthetic. even if its low milage and runs awsome i wouldnt. synthetic is more for something that lasts longer and to mee it doesent seem it would help that in any way seeing how the problems they have srent really related to the oil used in them, thinking about it....

 

the oil problems they seem to have is the pump seals and the massive leaks, more massive than most other cars. i think synthetic would help those leaks along.

 

as for me i am using 30w, nothing fancy. i've been putting it in because i didnt know if i was going to hit desert conditions. well i am glad i did because there have been alot of hot and dry days, days where it doesent get below 80F some times.

 

now there could be the argument of "this is an engine based of a german design" thats come up before but in all honesty that german design had no filter and any thing but close tolerances and it needed a thick oil. it had a screen kit but generally when you changed the oil you pulled a bush out of the screen kit before fillin it back up.

 

and also i thought i would throw this out there. from experence from working at a lube shop in a hippy town, there have been plenty of EA motors come through where people requested 20/50 and they did fine.

[rickssubie]

I hear ya, but it's kind of an apples to oranges comparrison(sp?) You're dealing with commercial constant use issues. We're dealing with 30 miles a day. If I had a fleet of, say, taxis in New York, I may go to synth. But I think we're on the same page. A few guys over at the Benz forum did do the oil analysis thing. It did show less suspended metal particles and all. But just how many thousands of miles would you need to put on your car before you saw any real appreciable diff? I think that's where synth oil nearly becomes a moot point in real world daily driving. I read alot of the articles "they" posted, saying how wonderful synth oil, and how evil dino oil is, in a auto engine. Still didn't really convince me.

I think it's a draw for us "normal" use drivers. Cars are built to better tolerances(I'm a machinist, to, BTW), and that has made more difference to engine life than about anything. That, and better materials(remember the 'ol Vega?).

[Niku-Sama]

well dont get me wrong, i put synthetic in other cars but those other cars generally push 200+ HP at the crank and are going to get used harder.

 

and yea the german design thing was mainly because this has come up before and a certian some one was boasting the fact that it was based off a german design....which in all honesty we all know what that design is and i dont think thats something i would be boasting, especially for these cars as these cars were better bulit than their similar year german "counterparts"

 

oh and what was the deal with the vega, it was an aluminum problem wasnt it (block w/o sleeves?)

[Twitch de la Brat]

And, BTW, the only japanese cars that get a thumbs up "over there", are Subies. They tore me apart when I bought the Lexus!

 

I find that Subes are like the happy middle ground for a lot of people.

 

Back on topic...

I use Castrol GTX 10w-40 in the EA's and I'm trying a Castrol 5w-30 synthetic

blend for my lego, just to see if it helps. (And because I got it for $.97 a quart!)

:banana:

 

Twitch

[Niku-Sama]

whered you get it that cheap?

[Twitch de la Brat]

whered you get it that cheap?

 

Clearance at SEARS.

Plus a car plug style power converter that has 5.4v!

Got that for $10

 

Twitch

[Niku-Sama]

hmm must check sears, my other car might like something like that

[GeneralDisorder]

and yea the german design thing was mainly because this has come up before and a certian some one was boasting the fact that it was based off a german design....which in all honesty we all know what that design is and i dont think thats something i would be boasting, especially for these cars as these cars were better bulit than their similar year german "counterparts"

 

It isn't based on what you thnk it is. And there were no similar year counterparts.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

But I think we're on the same page.

 

Oh yeah - we are on the same page. Synthtics are useful, but not for what people think they are useful for.

 

A few guys over at the Benz forum did do the oil analysis thing. It did show less suspended metal particles and all. But just how many thousands of miles would you need to put on your car before you saw any real appreciable diff? I think that's where synth oil nearly becomes a moot point in real world daily driving. I read alot of the articles "they" posted, saying how wonderful synth oil, and how evil dino oil is, in a auto engine. Still didn't really convince me.

 

It's better, but what the benz guys don't understand is that the life the car will have been exceeded several times over by the time the engine dies of internal component failure. And the neighbor will have already bought something better 10 years prior. Synthetic oil, for almost 100% of these guys, is money spent on use they will never get - maybe their kids if the car lives that long, or the next owner - but it's not an investment they are making for themselves and as such it's a poor investment IMO.

 

I think it's a draw for us "normal" use drivers. Cars are built to better tolerances(I'm a machinist, to, BTW), and that has made more difference to engine life than about anything. That, and better materials(remember the 'ol Vega?).

 

Aluminium cylinder's should most definitely be left to lawn-mower engines.... I agree on the tolerances and lets not forget that even dino oil has come a LONG way since the 1960's. Some of the new "super" dino oils might as well be considered a synthetic for most purposes - they are that good. Additive packages have improved immensely as well.

 

GD

[drew440]

I use 15w40 Shell Rotella. It seems to do well and I change oil every 3k. I run that oil in everything and have not had any issues. I agree with the keep it clean theory. I had a diesel rabbit that I ran Mobil 1 in and changed it every 3K along with the fuel filter and air filter. It had 31K on it when I got it and it had 131K when I sold it. Never an issue but it was overkill. At that time I also bought in to the theory that if it costs more, then it should be better. I have a serious drag car with 957HP (Dyno) and it burns E85. I run 15w40 Shell Rotella in it. It has around 25 passes on the engine. I've changed oil in that engine 5 times (9 quarts) and have looked everything over to find no wear issues. If you keep the oil from breaking down, I think you could use any quality oil and be fine. Just my 2 cents worth.

[TheLoyale]

I use 15w40 Shell Rotella. I have a serious drag car with 957HP (Dyno) and it burns E85. I run 15w40 Shell Rotella in it. It has around 25 passes on the engine. I've changed oil in that engine 5 times (9 quarts) and have looked everything over to find no wear issues. If you keep the oil from breaking down, I think you could use any quality oil and be fine. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

15w-40, where do you buy that? If I'm not mistaking, is that Diesel grade oil? I think MilesFox said something about it once. I wanted to run 15w-40 in mine, but can't find any, Where could I get some? I just run 10w-40 GTX. it does its job. My car doesn't blow oil so thats good proof

 

-Tom

[jrfan]

I use the cheapest (usually walmart) 5w30 in my 90 loyale.

I change it at 5000 mile intervals with Napa (Wix) filters.

I use Mobil 1 in my truck because it's not my daily driver and sits sometimes

two weeks or more without being started and also it's my tow vehicle.

Synthetic is supposed to flow better at startup especially in winter.

I also keep cars forever.

Probably wasting my money but it's only two oil changes a year on the truck. My last daily driver before the loyale was a Toyota with 320,000 miles on the original engine that never saw a drop of synthetic.

Just whatever conventional brand oil the quick lube places had from all the reciepts the original owner kept when I bought it at 212,000 miles.

I agree synthetic is a total waste for most people.

My wifes minivan is our most expensive vehicle and gets the most (mostly highway) miles.

I use regular Castrol gtx in it.

[Ricearu]

Here is my statement. Don't over exaggerate the question. Oil science aside, here are my results

 

I run CASTROL GTX 5w-30. Texas heat has no need for 10w-40. I use/leak about 1 quart of oil between oil changes.

 

I did a change ONCE with Valvoline 5w-30 (on sale ). I used 3 quarts in 3k miles.

 

I will stick with GTX from now on.

 

Simple question, simple answer...

[jrfan]

Here is my statement. Don't over exaggerate the question. Oil science aside, here are my results

 

I run CASTROL GTX 5w-30. Texas heat has no need for 10w-40. I use/leak about 1 quart of oil between oil changes.

 

I did a change ONCE with Valvoline 5w-30 (on sale ). I used 3 quarts in 3k miles.

 

I will stick with GTX from now on.

 

Simple question, simple answer...

I've been told all my life that changing brands is a bad idea.

My first car had used penzoil the first 100k.

I did a change with quaker state and it used oil and smoked from that day on.

My wifes first car when we met had only used quaker state and never a single problem.

Engine never used a drop and was clean as a pin.

I think maybe the different additive packages between certain brands just don't mix well not that the certain brand is poor quality.