sanction13 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I have a '82 EA81 wagon which I picked up recently nice and cheap with 180000kms on the clock. It wasn't running, just needed a new fuel line and set of points. It was rebuilt at around 130000kms, not sure how meticulous the rebuild was or why it was done. It was parked up for near 6 months before I got to it. Anyway there is a knocking sound coming from the RHS of the engine. The sound is intermittent and seems to only occur once the engine has warmed up. I have tried disconnecting plug leads one at a time to see if the knock will go away but the sound remained. Will disconnecting plug leads reveal noisy valves? I checked the timing on the weekend and it was set to over 20degrees before TDC. I bought this back down to the 8 degrees found in the specs. I have searched threads on here relating to the 'tick of death', I thought this issue only really occured in EA82 engines. I haven't had a chance to check the valve clearances yet, if one is out of spec will it cause a knocking sound? I added a bottle of worn engine treatment today so hopefully if it is a sicky valve that might clean it up a bit. Is there anyway I can do a diagnosis to tell if it is a pushrod? Any advice on how to move forward on this issue will be greatly appreciated. I'd also just like to say thanks to the members who post here, I have owned a few suby's over the years and have often found the answers I needed in this forum!! THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Adjust the valve lash before you do anything else. The solid lifter engines are supposed to have a lash adjustment every 10k miles. You can inspect for a bent push rod at the same time. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks GD. I will check the valve lash and pushrods this weekend. I showed a couple of guys from work the noise today and they seem to think its in the block, main bearing maybe. Is there anyway I can do a diagnosis on the main bearings without having to tear the engine down? Would a bent pushrod knock constantly or could it be intermittent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 This sounds to me like piston slap. If I had to guess without seeing... The thing with piston slap, is it occurs when the block warms up, it expands and allows the piston to walk around in the worn cylinder. The only fix for that is a to machine the cylinders and buy new pistons/rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks Ricearu So I'm guessing I can check if it is piston slap using a compression tester?? Also, I've noticed that the knock doesn't seem to be there while driving. If I pull up at a red light it will be idling nice and quiet. If I give the throttle a squirt the knock will start up again. Once I take off and get to the next red light however far away the knock will be gone again. The engine also seems to be missing a bit but I think this may be due to the dissy cap being pretty worn out. I am saving some $$$ to do the dissy cap, plugs and leads and the fuel and air filter. I would like to figure out this knock first though, to save me pouring cash into a lost cause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 hmmm no noise at idle... interesting. Not sure that it is piston slap as it doesn't do it at idle. Change dizzy cap and rotor, any other worn ignition parts, and for god's sake adjust the valves. Then adjust the timing. Could just be loud preignition.(would cause a "misfire" buck or sputter). Check the vacuum lines to the egr, pull it off and clean it out and make sure it works.(egr gas lowers cylinder temps and is closed at idle) If it persists and makes the noise loudest around 2200rpms then likely the main bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks Ricearu, to expand on my last post. Once the engine is warm , if I give the throttle a good squirt the knock will start. The knock will continue at idle until I take off, it will clear up by the time I get to the next red light. It will stay quiet at the next red light...until I give it a good rev. Another thing I've noticed is a squeal as I release the clutch while taking off, depending on how gentle I am on the clutch. I assumed this was just a worn out clutch, would loose bolts in the clutch/flywheel cause a squeal noise?? Could this also be causing the knock? I am going to take the car past a Subaru mechanic tomorrow and see if he can recognise the knock. I also have a 89 brumby/brat with an EA81 as well. I am going to swap the ignition parts off it, and adjust the valves/inspect pushrods on the weekend to see if any of these will address the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 now that the clutch squeal has come into the picture, it sheds a little light, Is your car leaking gear oil between the trans and engine? The squeal COULD be a bad pilot/throwout bearing. The knocking COULD be a a worn front bushing in the trans or bad throwout bearing. This is all merely speculation based on my previous experience with all types of cars and trucks, and what you are telling me, I wish I could see/hear your car in person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 After you adjust the valves try seafoaming it. It may have a sticky valve or lifter that needs a good cleaning. But it may be that the oil pump needs resealiing. You may not have oil pressure when you quick rev it and the oil pump is too loose to keep the oil flowing properly and it makes a valve or a lifter act up. But as you accelerate and maintain a higher rpm, the pump pushes more oil and is able to keep the pressure up. Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 now that the clutch squeal has come into the picture, it sheds a little light, Is your car leaking gear oil between the trans and engine? The squeal COULD be a bad pilot/throwout bearing. The knocking COULD be a a worn front bushing in the trans or bad throwout bearing. This is all merely speculation based on my previous experience with all types of cars and trucks, and what you are telling me, I wish I could see/hear your car in person... Hmm, this is a good thought. I know some Throwout bearings can make a ton of racket, (dry Metel screaming type sound, Knocking, clunking ect..) Do you feel any shudders in the clutch when you release it so it starts to grab? -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Thanks for the input guys much appreciated! Ricearu, there is a bit of oil on the transmission, haven't been able to get in under there to have a good look yet to see where its coming from. Tom, apart from the squeal which only happens one in five times the clutch and gearbox feels fine. No shudder on takeoff. Twitch, i can't find seafoam here in Australia. When I first got the car I ran a bottle of Wynn's engine flush through it (add to oil, run for fifteen minutes, then perform standard oil change) and then I tried wynn's worn engine treatment (add to oil and leave until next oil change) which seemed to have little effect. I don't know if you have Wynn's products over in the states. With regards to oil pressure, will holding the throttle on while parked raise the oil pressure or does the engine need to be under driving load?? Apart from this knock the engine seems pretty strong, no oil leaks and low mileage. The transmission also seems pretty good, a bit of a crunch getting into second from third but thats pretty standard for this type of transmission. I'm hoping its something simple that can be fixed, otherwise I'll be looking for a decent engine to drop into it!! I'll be taking it past the mechanics tomorrow arvo to see what he thinks. He is also the only wrecker for the older subys so I may haggle for a second hand engine or gearbox off him. I'm hoping he can recognise the knock from previous experience and lead me in the right direction. Otherwise you guys have given me a good idea of what I should be checking! Looks like I'm in for a fun weekend!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Not sure if we have Wynn's Products here but, a motor flush is a motor flush. When you changed the oil after that how much gunk came out in the oil (If you remember) another product you can see if you guys have in Australia is Marvel's Mystory Oil (MMO) you add it to you oil (Do not over fill) And leave it in till next change, it does seem to help the lifters after a few uses (I don't run it anymore) it also replenishes any seals. And yep, you can just sit and hold it at rev and the oil pressure will increse, it may not have the same effect since the there is no load on the engine, but give it a try if you feel -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 EA81's of the vintage being discussed here have solid lifters and do not use oil pressure to inflate them. So valve noise would be the same even if you drained the oil or stopped the pump. Re-evaluate the situation after you do a valve lash adjustment. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 You will need one of these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 EA81's of the vintage being discussed here have solid lifters and do not use oil pressure to inflate them. So valve noise would be the same even if you drained the oil or stopped the pump. Re-evaluate the situation after you do a valve lash adjustment. GD Yes this is 100% true, I forgot to add this. it is still good to run a flush, just to get any built up crap out of the engine. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Yes this is 100% true, I forgot to add this. it is still good to run a flush, just to get any built up crap out of the engine. -Tom Nothing wrong with flushing - but I prefer using a mixture of ATF and inexpensive engine oil. It's cheaper, just as effective, and you can leave it in for a 100 miles or so then drain out the black mess. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Nothing wrong with flushing - but I prefer using a mixture of ATF and inexpensive engine oil. It's cheaper, just as effective, and you can leave it in for a 100 miles or so then drain out the black mess. GD Yep, I havn't used ATF and oil mix but it sounds like it works. How hard is it on seals? You can leave SeaFoam in for a few miles aswell. Cause it doesn't destroy the oil, SeaFoam has alot of patroliums (Spelling) in it, thats why Deep Creep works so well on bolts and the like. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 ATF will not attack seals. Buna, Nitrile, and Viton are all rated for use with ATF. It is also petroleum based but it has a large amount of degreasers and solvents in it. It is rated for use in automatic transmissions after all . Most of the stuff out there - MMO, Rislone, engine flush/diesel, etc will not do any better than ATF. Not worth the difference in price IMO. Remember that post about the magazine that rated rust-busting fluids? You remember what was ranked the highest? 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone. I have a can of Deep Creep in the garage but I wasn't that impressed with it. Yield is much better although I do want to try the 50/50 mix when I aquire some high-concentration Acetone. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 ATF will not attack seals. Buna, Nitrile, and Viton are all rated for use with ATF. It is also petroleum based but it has a large amount of degreasers and solvents in it. It is rated for use in automatic transmissions after all . Most of the stuff out there - MMO, Rislone, engine flush/diesel, etc will not do any better than ATF. Not worth the difference in price IMO. Remember that post about the magazine that rated rust-busting fluids? You remember what was ranked the highest? 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone. I have a can of Deep Creep in the garage but I wasn't that impressed with it. Yield is much better although I do want to try the 50/50 mix when I aquire some high-concentration Acetone. GD That was the main reason I figured it could be hard on seals, Degreaser! But it still is Petroleum based, and it doesn't eat the bands in the tranny, so I guess. Yep, I remember that one. ATF/Acetone mix is your friend hehe. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The reason Yeild is better then Deep Creep, is cause its for Commercial/Industrial use. Not like you can pick it up at a parts house. Sorry for all the chit chat. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks guys. Iv'e just bought a new dissy cap, rotor, plugs and leads. So tomorrow morning I'll be up at the crack of dawn and into it!! I figure I'll check valve lash, inspect the pushrods, fit dissy cap, rotor, plugs and leads, start her up and adjust the timing. And see how she goes from there... GD, I take it by ATF you mean automatic transmission fluid. I've never owned an auto, does auto tranny oil have weight specs like manual, if so whats a good weight to use? Thanks guys will let you know how i go tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks guys. Iv'e just bought a new dissy cap, rotor, plugs and leads. So tomorrow morning I'll be up at the crack of dawn and into it!! I figure I'll check valve lash, inspect the pushrods, fit dissy cap, rotor, plugs and leads, start her up and adjust the timing. And see how she goes from there... GD, I take it by ATF you mean automatic transmission fluid. I've never owned an auto, does auto tranny oil have weight specs like manual, if so whats a good weight to use? Thanks guys will let you know how i go tomorrow! No, ATF has no weight specs. Best of luck with your repairs! -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Dexon ATF has an ISO rating of around 29 or 30.... 10 weight oil has an ISO of 32 for comparison. So ATF is a schosh thinner than 10 weight - it's hydraulic oil so this makes sense. But it's also rated as a gear oil - obviously it has to protect the same gears that generally run in 90 weight gear oil - thus it's fortified with a lot of additives to counter it's thinness. GD Edited August 28, 2009 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Hi All, I fitted the new plugs, leads dissy cap and rotor. Statred her up and she seemed to run a lot better. Didn't let it run for long though cause I wanted to move on the valve lash/pushrods. As I removed the rocker assembly I found a lot of freeplay in piston 1's intake rocker arm. I compared the build of the rocker assembly to the FSM and found that washers and spring washers were fitted incorrectly. I think whoever rebuilt the engine must have re-assembled these out of order and left some out. This brings me to my next issue. I'll go out to the suby dealer/wrecker tomorrow morning to get the correct washers and spring washers I need. However the diagrams in the FSM has 1 washer/spring washer unlabled. Check out: http://mshoup.us/docs/fsm/EA81/83/Chapter03-Engine.pdf on page 19. On the LHS rocker between part 7 (rocker shaft supporter) and part 8 (Valve Rocker arm CP) On the RHS rocker between part 7 (rocker shaft supporter) and part 11 (Valve Rocker Arm CP2) Can anyone tell me if this part is to be a washer or spring washer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanction13 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Disregard question about rocker assembly washers. I can figure it out from the factory parts manual. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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