92 Legacy or 99 Forester?

[photographxgrl]

I'm looking at two different Subarus and just looking for some general opinions on which seems the better/smarter buy.

 

One is a 1992 Legacy wagon with 192,000 miles on it: http://chambana.craigslist.org/cto/1336813797.html

 

The other is a 1999 Forester with 126,000 miles:

http://chambana.craigslist.org/ctd/1354457905.html

 

I'm just wondering how much of a difference does 1999 vs 1992 make mechanically? 192,000 vs 126,000? AWD Forester vs FWD Legacy as far as maintenance, known problems, price of parts, etc?

 

Thanks for any input.

 

Laura

[bheinen74]

of those, the 92 with new front tires scares me, but if its only fwd, then not so scary, other than the fact you probably want AWD.

 

If you want AWD that works, do not go for the 92 wagon. 1300 for a 18 year old car with only fwd is a bit high.

[Olnick]

Hi Laura. They both appear to be very nice looking cars.

 

Just be aware that that the DOHC EJ25 engine (in the Forester) had an inherent weakness from its introduction in '97 through about 2002. They are prone to blowing head gaskets and that's about a $1500 repair job.

 

The Legacy has the original EJ22, which many of us consider "bulletproof!"

With proper care and maintenance it should be good for a long time. (My son has a '92 with similar mileage and we both marvel at how sweet that little engine is.)

 

AWD would definitely be nice, especially in snow country. FWD might save you a few pennies on gas. All depends on your comfort level and needs.

 

Just like any car, some parts are pricey and some are reasonable. One advantage of the older Legacy--you can often find good parts at great prices in a salvage yard or pull-and-pay.

 

Hey, good luck with your decision--and please do ask any questions you have.

[wtdash]

Just to clarify on Olnick's informative post, the '99 Forester (and Impeza RS) had the SOHC 2.5 engine, not the DOHC. The DOHC was '98 only for the Forester. (The legacy outback used the DOHC thru the '99 model year.)

 

The SOHC 2.5 also had issues but usually they could be resolved w/a coolant additive, so you might check the car's maintenance history to see if it was treated.

 

Also, the Forester has an issue w/the rear wheel bearings, which are expensive to have replaced.

 

Plus the Forester has air bags, ABS and a 5 year warranty....The '92 Legacy rec'd air bags midway thru '92 so it may/may not have them, and ABS wasn't standard, either.

 

The legacy will have a bit more cargo room, if it matters.

 

My suggestion is get the Forester (or maybe I will :-) )

 

Enjoy!

TD

Edited September 2, 2009 by wtdash

[idosubaru]

if the forester has had the head gaskets replaced, i would definitely go that route. the best 2.5 liter to own is one that has already had the head gaskets properly replaced.

 

other than that it's a toss up, just depends how you like to roll. newer is nice as it'll have less rust and less minor issues - like stuck cracking, breaking, alternator, calipers, newer fluids all the way around, etc.

 

but the older EJ engines are great motors. it's just that all the hoses and gaskets are now getting 15+ years old and then there's always maintenance history to contend with.

 

it's a good idea to get a clue on how well maintained it was and how many owners it's had. good maintenance and fewer owners means a lot.

[Olnick]

. . . the '99 Forester (and Impeza RS) had the SOHC 2.5 engine, not the DOHC.

 

Thanks for the correction, wtdash. I never realized that (so much of my information base is fuzzy after MY '95!!!)

[The Dude]

I owned a 99 Forester and I KNOW for a fact that the 99 has the SOHC engine. The Forester got the SOHC engine in 1999, the other Subaru models got the SOHC engine in 2000. So, it's very easy to make this error.

 

I got 200,000 almost problem free miles out of my 1999 Forester, then I sold it. The SOHC engine does not have the internal head gasket problems in the way that the DOHC most certainly did.

 

1999-2002 SOHC had eternal head gasket leak problems to a very limited extent, You might have a mechanic check for evidence of an external head gasket leak. I now drive a '06 Forester. I loved the body styling of the '99. The '06 does not look anywhere as nice. It's usually worth the money to have experinced Subaru mechanic take a look at a used car.

 

The timing belt should have been done at 105,000 miles. MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS DONE. I would also want proof that the pulleys and tensioner were changed at that time.

[photographxgrl]

Thanks so much for all the replies! I appreciate it.

 

My two main issues with the Forester are the height (I'm short and need to place my kayaks on top) and the dealership that's handling it--don't really trust them. But the Legacy seems pretty old and high mileage for someone with my limited mechanical know-how. Maybe neither is the right fit for me but I feel under a bit of pressure to get a second car since my teens are starting to drive. I do also like the cargo space of the Legacy, just wishing it was a bit newer.

 

I haven't gleaned much info about the Forester's history so I'll need to run a CarFax on it but the Legacy has had 3 previous owners and so-so maintenance. If I could handle a real car payment then I'd have a lot more to choose from but it's slim pickin's in my price range.

 

If I did buy the Legacy I'd have $1000 or so to spend on it after, any tips on first things to replace? I don't like the idea of two new and two old tires so that'd be first on my list, then all fluids and possibly struts. I know that one ball joint needs replacing but I don't know much about that/those. If I could get two more years out of the car that would at least help my situation.

 

Laura

[idosubaru]

legacy - replace the transmission fluid.

 

ball joint should be replaced immediately if it's needed. they're only $30 plus labor.

 

as for reliability i'd replace the timing belt, a few hundred dollars depending on mechanic/labor charges. use an ebay timing belt kit - they're only $90 or $150 with the timing belt. they include everything - all new belt, pulleys, and tensioner. excellent deal. no point in just replacing the belt and leaving all the other old stuff in there. a new timing belt will break if those pulleys or water pump fails.

 

Air filter, thermostat ($12 from Subaru), PCV valve ($7 from Subaru) and radiator car are good, cheap and easy things to replace as well.

 

Save the rest for necessary repairs in the future.

[The Dude]

Hi Laura. I took a look at the Forester ad on EBay. Right off, I question what I see. "FoRRester", someone who owned a Forester would most likely know how to spell the name. Be very cautious of after market warranties. What you need above all is dependable transportation. Personally, I think high mileage used cars are best for people who can do the majority of their own repair work. It's a terrible thing when a woman buys a used car that turns into a money pit. Like Grossgary, I can replace a ball joint for $35, because I have the tools and experience to do the job myself. It's different when you're paying $85-95 p/h for shop time.

 

Take your time selecting in a used car. It may, or may not, be a Subaru.

[unibrook]

Dude has a good eye, and a good point. Anyone who owned and cared for their car KNOWS how to spell its name. I know this seems like a small detail, but.......you know where the devil hides, right??

 

In contrast, I own and love a 2001 Forester. It has had all of the usual problems. I do most of the work on it myself, and have a shop assist if I get stuck. For all of my cars, I have kept a spreadsheet of ALL maintenance done on them for the entire time I have owned the cars. When I sell them, I hand the new owner the spreadsheet....and their eyes light up in appreciation. Maintenance history is a good thing.

[photographxgrl]

I really appreciate all the great info.

 

I had been thinking I'd buy some sort of (hopefully Subaru) used car that I could pay cash for thus eliminating the need for a car payment but the only cars in my price range for that plan seem pretty used up. I've been hesitant about taking on a car payment for a lower milage used car (brand new is out of the question with my budget right now) because I was afraid of having a car payment AND major repairs at the same time but maybe I should rethink this strategy since I am no mechanic and these much older cars sound pretty needy.

 

I currently drive a 2000 Dodge Neon in great condition but know that she's getting older. The car has 37,000 miles on it and is always serviced properly, washed, waxed and armor all-ed regularly so I'm hoping it will run a long time, yet, but I have two teen drivers now so feel we need a second car--that's why I am looking and asking all of these questions.

 

So, today I stopped and looked at an absolutely gorgeous 2003 Forester for $10,000. It only has 34,335 miles on it and looks perfect. Belonged to a senior couple who's family now has to sell the car (husband passed and the wife is in a nursing home). It would mean a car payment but I was thinking since it's been treated as well as my own lil neon and it's only 34,xxx miles then it shouldn't need any major repairs for at least a couple of years thus making it the better deal?

 

So, I'm just curious what this forum thinks about my thinking that I should expect this car to run without the major issues like head gaskets, blown transmissions and such so long as I treat the car properly. Does that sound reasonable? I would be using the Forester to haul around my kayaks, but as you can see from my neon, I don't put many miles a year on a car.

 

OR maybe I should just start playing the lottery in hopes of being able to afford a brand new Outback

[johnceggleston]

the miles plus cost is very attractive, 34,000 plus 10000.0 = 134. by my standard the is the same as a subaru with o miles for $13,400 or a car with 100k miles for $3,400.

 

the bigger question is affordability. does it fit your budget.?

 

and this car even with only 34k miles is going to need a timing belt soon, around 2012. the t-belt schedule is 105k miles or 105 months. the cost of the t-belt will range from 500 - 1000 depending where you live and how much you do. this engine, any 2.5L and any 2.2L '97 - '01, will have expensive damage if the timing belt breaks.

 

personally i'm crazy about the 95 or 96 legacy for a reliable high mileage used car. and if you only drive 4000 miles a year, a 95 with 180k will last you a very long time. it's not bad looking, the engine is non-interference (no damage if the belt breaks) and as mentioned before, parts are readily available. but you will have to add some repair cost to the purchase of what ever used car you buy. almost none will be in perfect working order.

 

i read an article in AARP magazine recently which made 2 great points, maintaining the car you have is almost always cheaper than buying "new".

and, the average age of a car in america today is 9.3 years. mine (90, 97, & 95) are on the high side, but there must be some really old cars out there.

 

if your dodge is still serving you well you can take your time and wait for a great deal to come along that fits your budget.

 

good luck and let us know what you do.

[The Dude]

I am not familiar with used car prices in your area. However, this car comes close to the ideal buying situation. One owner, and the original owner is selling the car. Older couple, if the car was well maintained it should not be beaten to death. It is possible that the seller has the maintenance records. 2003 means that the engine should be clear of the head gasket issues found in the earlier models. You may wish to have the car checked out by a mechanic, but at least the situation suggests that you're not "buying someone else's problem". As in, "the transmission is starting to act up, time to unload the car on someone else".

 

Once again, the primary reason many buy a Subaru is AWD. In my case, I bought a Subaru primarily due to it's exceptional towing capacity. Snow is not a major issue in South Carolina. If you acquire a Subaru acquaint yourself with the car before you drive it. AWD has some strict requirements as to towing the vehicle and tires.

 

A higher mileage car sold by the original owner at a lower price might even be a better fit for you. High mileage vehicles with unknown histories tend to make me apprehensive. Of course, that just might be me.

Edited September 5, 2009 by The Dude

[photographxgrl]

So, I ran across a '01 Forester for $5500 and test drove it today. The big catch is that it was in a one car wreck 2 years ago that damaged the rear suspension and drivetrain. The owner has all the paperwork showing the work done on the car and how it was fixed--her dad is her insurance agent. They have records showing that regular maintenance has been kept up and the following:

 

07/09 Headlight Switch/Wand Replaced

07/09 Timing Belt Replaced

04/09 Front Oxygen Sensor Replaced

Knock Sensor Replaced

Gas Cap Replaced

02/09 Ball Joints Replaced

01/09 Spark Plugs Replaced

Half Shafts Replaced

Serpentine Belts Replaced

08/08 Cooling System Flush

Transmission/Filter Flush/Replaced

05/08 (2) Tires Replaced / Rotated

04/08 Brakes Replaced

12/07 (2) Tires Replaced/Rotated

 

The car has 98,xxx miles on it and a lot of exterior scratches plus a couple of minor dings. On the interior everything works but one door speaker sounds bad, the seats are badly worn and stained, center console armrest is broken and the interior of the back hatch is all scratched up from hauling a ferret cage. Everything seemed to work fine, though, and it ran well except for a bit of a list to the right--I'm thinking the front end needs realigned.

 

First question, is it just dumb to ever buy a car that has been wrecked and repaired? Does it matter that the car hit the ditch from the rear instead of having front end damage?

 

Second question, is it even possible to fix all the cosmetic issues? Is it realistic to think that I could fix items like the broken arm rest for cheap or should I only buy it if I'm OK with it's worn looks?

 

Hope I'm not becoming a pest but it's great to have you guys to bounce questions off of as I shop. I thank you!

 

Laura

[GeneralDisorder]

That's expensive for a torn-up Forester. I just bought a 99 for $1500, replaced the radiator and it's golden. Yes it has 232k on it, but still - $4000 leaves a lot of room for repairs - hell I could replace the entire drivetrain for that. It's also in very nice condition inside and out.

 

Look for something nicer before paying that kind of price.

 

GD

[Olnick]

Laura, you're not being a pest--we want to help (or at least try to!)

 

That said, I agree with GD. That's too much for a car in the condition you describe.

 

Good luck.

[photographxgrl]

Just a quick update since so many people have offered their advice on this topic. I offered the '01 Subaru Forester owners $4000 and they declined so I drove the old '92 Legacy wagon but found it needs a lot of work. I'm no mechanic but it felt very shaky when I drove it and the interior looked/felt very worn--like window motors starting to go, etc. I mean, I expect wear and tear, of course, but it just kind of felt that I'd need to do a lot more work than I'd have the experience level to pull off. I've also decided that I can't really risk the payment necessary to buy the pretty '03 Forester so I'm still looking and test driving.

 

I'm going to give the Neon a tune up, attempt to fix a broken back door lock and test drive a '99 Toyota Rav4 today. We'll see how that goes but wanted to just say thanks to everyone on this board! I appreciated your input.

 

Laura